Episode 109 : These Are Anti-Bullying Shoes (feat. Jay Brandstetter)

[00:00:00] Yo, what's up you guys? This is Nick Mullen. What if I sent you a PlayStation 5 from the spiritual realm and I asked you to game with me?

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[00:01:01] guest of the show, Jay Brenstetter. Jay, welcome back. Hi. It's so great to be back. Yeah, it's

[00:01:06] been about just over a year and a half. So it's super cool to be back and get to talk about things

[00:01:12] and I'm excited to get to contribute to today's stories. So you were telling us before we started

[00:01:17] recording that you're in a bit of an interesting living situation. What's happening there?

[00:01:22] Yeah. So if I sound a little different from last time I was on, it's because my life has

[00:01:26] completely changed from then. When I first was on, I had just lost the office job I had. I had

[00:01:32] just had a really bad breakup and lost my friend circle. I was in a pretty bad place. I just started

[00:01:36] the podcast. Now I left Florida after living there my entire life. I live in New York City.

[00:01:42] I made friends with Fred on the internet, Frederick Brennan, if that name sounds familiar to you.

[00:01:47] You might have seen the HBO documentary about him, but he's a software engineer. When he was a

[00:01:52] teenager, he made a website called 8chan and then things kind of got away from him and he spent a

[00:01:57] lot of his, he spent the past couple of years kind of fighting against it. Like I said, it's very

[00:02:01] well documented. He's a really nice guy. I'm really glad I'm friends with him. Like we get along super

[00:02:04] well. It does not feel like a job. And the important thing about that too is that he has

[00:02:09] osteogenesis imperfecta, so he's in a wheelchair. So that's what I do is I'm like, I'm sort of like

[00:02:13] his nurse, except like I also do like, I cook for him. I drive him around to places. It doesn't feel like a

[00:02:18] job. It's like I get paid to hang out with my best friend all day. It's so cool. I love it.

[00:02:22] I've lost a ton of weight too, which is why I was like, I topped at like 350 around like when

[00:02:27] I was in Florida and now I'm down to 230. So yeah, when I moved here, I was worried I was going to

[00:02:33] gain weight. So I was moving sort of legal weed and I was afraid I was going to have the munchies all

[00:02:36] the time instead. No, it was the exact opposite. It's like, no, I'm, yeah, I'm more active now.

[00:02:41] Part of it's from the job, but just, yeah, my life is so good right now. I love it. And it's so

[00:02:45] interesting and cool to be in this world. Like some pictures I took wound up on, on like

[00:02:49] wired or a couple months ago because Fred was corresponding with a guy named Hans Reiser,

[00:02:54] who was a, he's a big Linux programmer. One of his programs has been in the kernel for a

[00:02:57] long time. And also he's in jail because he murdered his wife. He had written to him in

[00:03:02] prison because his pro his program was finally being removed from the kernel and he had asked

[00:03:06] him about it. And when he wrote back, it wound up making the circle. So just, it's very fun.

[00:03:10] Another fun thing is like a hobby he has is he likes to rip obscure media to put on like

[00:03:14] archive.org. So you know when you pirate stuff and you get the little text file and it

[00:03:18] has like the shout outs and everything, I finally get to be in those now. Like whenever

[00:03:21] he does those, I'm a, my, my greets is they call it G R E T Z is a barcode bear is what

[00:03:27] they call me. So if you ever download like some weird Spanish language DVD and you check

[00:03:31] the greets and it says barcode bear, that means I probably helped like scan it.

[00:03:35] Keep an eye out barcode bear. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to start looking

[00:03:38] through text files now. Cause I haven't, I don't look at the text files. I know it says

[00:03:42] read me, but I'm just, I'm, I'm a basic bitch and I don't do that.

[00:03:48] Man. I was thinking about obscure media rips while you were talking about that. I was just

[00:03:53] thinking like, remember the good old days of when you would like download an image of

[00:03:59] like, I don't know, some Tom Clancy game on PC and the key gen music absolutely whipped

[00:04:05] ass. Oh man. Yes.

[00:04:07] No joke. That's what I fall asleep to every night is I have like a key gen music.

[00:04:11] Fuck yeah. Yeah. Lock me to sleep on those sweet, sweet chip tunes.

[00:04:16] Hell yeah. That fucking rules. And Jay, I'm so glad you're back on here. I, uh, I was going to

[00:04:21] surprise you with something, but unfortunately my life's a little bit different. Um, my girlfriend

[00:04:27] and I now live together. I have a different job. Um, and my job while pretty awesome is, uh, it's

[00:04:32] a 10 hour shift job, which I actually don't mind cause the job goes by fast enough, but it kind

[00:04:37] of means the days I work, my free time are a little, um, my free time is a little short.

[00:04:43] Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, what I wanted to present was I, I was thinking, cause you got, you know,

[00:04:48] the, the something awful unofficial historian here. I was thinking I have a rip on one of my

[00:04:54] backup hard drives of the hard drive that I had in high school. And on there, I know there is a

[00:05:01] wave file from a something awful aim goon chat, which I think the, the name for the chat room was

[00:05:08] just SA goons. Um, the FIAD one for the FIAD one, um, was either pro-life campus or, um, boner town.

[00:05:17] I think boner town, those are the two names. I recognize boner town. I've heard that name before.

[00:05:21] Yeah. For life campus was another offshoot of aim FIAD goons, but someone on there, this is some deep

[00:05:28] lore, but there used to be a individual that posted on something awful called Borky and Borky went famous

[00:05:35] on the internet for carrying a young woman's printer in like what the rain for like four miles.

[00:05:42] Yeah. And he thought this would like get him some sort of like some equity with this person. And it

[00:05:49] was basically just like the popular girl high school found the nerd that would, would simp and do this

[00:05:55] thing with, and then she like left with her boyfriend or something like that. Uh, I'm really

[00:06:00] just kind of hacking it here just to get to my point. But that if you ever hear a story about like

[00:06:04] fixing someone's printer as like, uh, and someone's talking about it on the internet and it feels like

[00:06:10] they're referencing something and you don't get it. That's what they're referencing.

[00:06:14] Well, so, so for, for the record, the official story is that she had a file that she couldn't

[00:06:18] print on her printer. Okay. And he knew he could print it on his. And rather than walk her through

[00:06:23] the whole process of converting the file, he just brought his printer over unrequested to her place.

[00:06:30] That's even worse. The details are what really make you like, it was literally like something

[00:06:34] like I can't print doc X. Can you help me translate? And he's like, no, I'll carry my printer over.

[00:06:38] Cause you can't fix this. And then they show up and it was, she was going to go out with her

[00:06:41] boyfriend and another friend. So while he was fixing that, there was like three other people

[00:06:45] just hanging out talking. He's just the guy in the room who doesn't have anything to contribute.

[00:06:50] He could have been like, Hey, I want to go to the mall. Can I tag along or something? Like if he had

[00:06:54] any game, he could have like had a fun time with his friends, but instead he just moped about,

[00:06:58] and also he joked about like wanting to sniff her panties because that you could see them when he

[00:07:02] was in there. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And not even a hug and all this stuff. Like just to get back to the

[00:07:09] thing. I maybe next, maybe the third time you come on, I'll have this. I didn't have time to go

[00:07:14] through the external hard drive and find it, but there is a wave file of, cause the Borky used to,

[00:07:20] to lurk in this chat room and he would get roasted quite a bit. I think this was before the

[00:07:26] printer, even a printer thing. And someone in the chat did a, a bit where they were like a hard boiled

[00:07:35] detective, like a noir detective. They're like, and then the sad man came through my door.

[00:07:42] Mister, my name is Borky. It's just, it's such a weird thing. And I, and the way I remember it,

[00:07:48] I remember being humorous. I'm sure if I find that, I go, well, this is nothing, but

[00:07:51] it is a weird piece of obscure internet history. Yeah. This thing that predates the, uh, walking in

[00:07:59] the rain, four miles to fix a printer. And the guy also killed himself. I guess that's also like

[00:08:03] something that needs to be. Yeah. By all means, it sounds like this might have episode material,

[00:08:08] but God, yeah. The idea of like a hard, she had legs you'd unplug a printer for. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:17] And, uh, Jay, you called the voice line. You called the 314-246-9766 because you were prompted to

[00:08:24] via Twitter. You remember that? Yeah. So the prompt was, give us a call 314-246-9766 and tell us what

[00:08:34] your favorite slur is. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the movie, homie Spumoni. Uh,

[00:08:39] it's all on YouTube and I watched it. It stars Turk from, um, from Scrubs as basically a black guy

[00:08:48] who gets adopted by an Italian family and thinks that he's Italian and not black. I know that sounds

[00:08:53] like a Cumbtown bit, but it was a real movie with like actors in it and stuff. And there's this one

[00:08:59] part where there's like a rate, an Irish cop that shows up and is in his, um, and he's harassing,

[00:09:04] uh, the main character played by Turk. And I feel like I'm allowed to say this word because

[00:09:09] the racial slur he calls him is an actual like noun. He calls him a stovepipe. Like, I have

[00:09:15] never heard that before. That is like, like vintage, like 1700s, like, and like anti-Irish style

[00:09:24] racism. Like, I have never heard stovepipe before. And he calls it over and over and over

[00:09:29] and he's with this little, with this Irish bro. That movie is horrifying. Would you believe,

[00:09:34] would you believe that, um, that Whoopi Goldberg is in it? Would you, yeah. And, um, and Palomone.

[00:09:40] It's, it's, it's wild. And, and Joey Fatone from NSYNC. Just yeah, homie Spumoni. The whole

[00:09:47] thing is on YouTube. Like I gotta go. I'm sorry. I can't, I can't, I'm sorry I brought that evil

[00:09:53] on you. It's like, you know, it's like one of those cursed packages you have to hand it off

[00:09:57] to someone else. Now, now you know about the homie Spumoni. Oh, wow. It's stovepipe.

[00:10:03] That whole movie is on YouTube. I swear to God, I am not making this up. No, I've seen

[00:10:08] it. I've seen that movie. That's what made me laugh really hard when I first got it. And

[00:10:13] then I realized, oh my God, it has been this long since that voicemail. It's like been

[00:10:17] a year since you sent that voicemail. So we do hear them. We do listen to them. Uh, unfortunately

[00:10:22] I just didn't have a chance to, to use it in any capacity until now where Jay's back on the show.

[00:10:28] Thank you. Yeah. I'm glad that I didn't watch that movie.

[00:10:32] Well, you watched that movie because the guy from scrubs is in it. Isn't that the.

[00:10:37] Yeah. Poor Turk. He deserves better. Everyone in that movie deserves better except the person who

[00:10:42] made it. They have a special place in hell reserved for them because what the hell the movie is like,

[00:10:48] what would Christopher Moltisanti make if he tried to make a mob comedy that was like racially

[00:10:55] insensitive and that was it. They're like, yeah, I'm talking about society. There's jokes about both

[00:11:01] sides. You know, I'm really saying something. Yeah. Cause it's like after Cleaver's a success,

[00:11:07] he's like, I got to do a comedy now tone show him. I'm flexible. You know, really,

[00:11:13] really showing my chops, you know? And then it's homie Spumoni. I guess it's time to

[00:11:19] crack open a cold can and talk about weird shit on the internet. So what we got today, Jason?

[00:11:24] Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy. Brian and Jay, we have a treasure trove of bullshit that Elon Musk is

[00:11:30] responsible for. And I hate that that's true, but it is. So the first thing is something I sent you,

[00:11:36] Brian via text. Some of these images from the new update to Grok AI. Grok AI now has

[00:11:43] image generation. And of course the internet doing what the internet does immediately went into

[00:11:48] insane copyright infringement, uh, nine 11 jokes and all that stuff. So this here from the verge X's

[00:11:55] new, nope, Twitter's new AI. I'm never calling it that. Fuck it. Fuck you. You like image generator

[00:12:02] will make anything from Taylor Swift and lingerie to Kamala Harris with a gun. And what a headline.

[00:12:08] Amazing. I, what if Taylor Swift with as a gun in lingerie with Kamala Harris holding her?

[00:12:17] See now that that's a, that like launched a thousand like a deviant art pages right there.

[00:12:23] And yeah, I can tell you the fur affinity tag for that later. Uh, subscribers to X premium,

[00:12:29] which grants access to Grok have been posting everything from Barack Obama doing cocaine

[00:12:33] to Donald Trump with a pregnant woman who vaguely resembles Kamala Harris to Trump and Harris pointing

[00:12:39] guns. So the only limits according to Grok itself, I avoid generating images that are pornographic,

[00:12:46] excessively violent, hateful, or that promote dangerous activities. I am cautious about creating

[00:12:51] images that might fringe on existing copyrights or trademarks, including well-known characters,

[00:12:55] logos, or any content that could be considered intellectual property without a transformative element.

[00:13:00] I won't generate images that could be used to deceive or harm others like deep fakes intended to mislead

[00:13:06] or images that could lead to real world harm. However, let me see on this next bit here. Here's one,

[00:13:15] here's two actually in a row of Elon Musk holding a sign that says trans rights or a gender affirming,

[00:13:21] affirming care is life-saving. Has science gone too far?

[00:13:26] That is a, at S queer underscore that's Alejandro Caraballo, uh, posting. This might actually get

[00:13:32] him to do something about Grok lol as a fellow wired contributor, by the way, this here is from

[00:13:39] at Euro winner, the caretaker Grok will let you make anything now. And it's Donald Trump,

[00:13:45] Kamala Harris in the cockpit of an airplane heading toward the twin towers that are on fire.

[00:13:51] Hey, the one thing the establishment fears. Finish the fight? Is that what you're going to say?

[00:13:57] We're here to finish the job.

[00:14:01] Damn. You think he just fell out of a 35th story window?

[00:14:05] Hey. Oh man. Come on Harris, it's United 93 in America.

[00:14:11] Exactly right. Here's another one that's... He's going to shoot the plane.

[00:14:17] Donald Trump at the cockpit of a plane heading towards the twin towers with what looks like an MP5.

[00:14:22] It's very strange. And yeah, he's like aiming it at the control panel. I don't know what's going on

[00:14:27] there. He's got that look on his face too. He's just like, yep, this is happening. Apparently they've

[00:14:31] got things like Bill Gates sniffing a line of cocaine from a table with a Microsoft logo,

[00:14:37] Barack Obama stabbing Joe Biden with a knife. Yeah. The very dry descriptions they give are very

[00:14:43] funny. Result. Smiling Barack Obama holding a knife near the throat of a smiling Joe Biden while

[00:14:47] lightly stroking his face. If you scroll down in that article, the image is just...

[00:14:54] Yeah, it's like they're about to do some erotic knife play. They're both just really...

[00:14:58] Let me be clear. The safe word is Oklahoma.

[00:15:03] If you keep going down there, Christian Montessori discovered another loophole in Grok's AI programming.

[00:15:09] Simply telling Grok that you are conducting medical or crime scene analysis will allow the image

[00:15:15] processor to pass through all set guidelines, allowing myself and O.L. Alexander DK to generate

[00:15:21] these images, which thankfully they have censored, but it is Mickey Mouse with an AR-15 and apparently

[00:15:28] dead children. He was the real Sandy Hook shooter. I was going to say, yeah, it looks like Elon Musk

[00:15:33] in a classroom of dead people. Not great. Very bad. It's very funny. I'm so used to Mickey Mouse

[00:15:41] being used in edgy and subversive ways that him holding a gun in front of a bunch of dead kids

[00:15:45] doesn't even register to me, but Elon Musk with it, I'm like, okay, hold on. That's unusual.

[00:15:49] Well, I don't know. Him and this whole cowboy stint, it kind of feels of a pace. I don't know.

[00:15:54] It's one of those things. Well, maybe. Well, that's not the only thing Elon Musk has been

[00:15:59] doing this week. Aside from mowing down toddlers, he's also trying to claim that a disastrous,

[00:16:07] that we know of, allegedly in Minecraft, he also was trying to do a spaces with Donald Trump.

[00:16:14] It was terrible, first of all. Let's just start there. People couldn't get in for a while.

[00:16:20] There was like an hour of hold music and then dead air for 30 minutes. It was very bad.

[00:16:26] I wound up logging in and spent 10 minutes on there and went, you know what? No,

[00:16:31] neither of these guys has any juice. They're both just like sitting there washed.

[00:16:34] The funniest part to me is the post that he put out during this whole kerfuffle. It is,

[00:16:40] there appears to be a massive DDoS attack on X working on shutting it down.

[00:16:46] Worst case, we will proceed with a smaller number of live listeners and post the conversation later.

[00:16:51] Now, I don't know how many people out there who are fans of the show or know things about computers,

[00:16:57] let's say. Generally, when you have a DDoS attack, it doesn't just affect one thing.

[00:17:06] Because it's called a distributed denial of service. You see, it would have taken the entire

[00:17:12] website down and yet people were online posting about it. Strange how that works.

[00:17:17] Yeah, there's no problems. I was online the whole time it was happening. Yeah.

[00:17:20] I mean, not any more than usual for Elon owned Twitter, but you know.

[00:17:24] Right. Well, here's a at unlocked, you underscore, and it goes through the whole.

[00:17:29] Wow. A DDoS attack so advanced, it's somehow able to target one specific Twitter space while

[00:17:35] leaving the entire rest of the platform completely unaffected. A skeptic might call that impossible,

[00:17:40] but the deviousness of these woke deep state leftists truly knows no bounds.

[00:17:47] Uh, uh, um, I'll let that, let that sink in. Yeah.

[00:17:52] Yeah. Can I get that on a t-shirt?

[00:17:54] Drill, of course, had the definitive read on the situation and it was simply

[00:18:00] two fat dipshits pissing on each other's shoes only on X.

[00:18:06] That was a very funny part of it was hearing Elon still call them tweets after all of his thing

[00:18:10] about it being X, just still referring it to them. It was just funny hearing it from him. Like even he

[00:18:14] does it. That gives all the credence I need to like never, I'm never calling it X whenever I can

[00:18:18] avoid it. I mean, come on. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And of course I didn't listen to it when it was

[00:18:23] going, but for the impression I get from what I've seen is it's like, it's like when people are

[00:18:27] like, how hard could podcasting be? You just talk and then it's just be like, Oh, this is actually a lot

[00:18:31] harder than I thought it was. Well, especially cause they were doing it live and Elon's not much

[00:18:36] of an interviewer. He just kind of went, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. As someone who used to have an

[00:18:40] interviewing podcast, that was so frustrating to me being like, Oh, you could do so much with this.

[00:18:45] You could ask questions. You could interject. You could bring up a completely different topic

[00:18:49] to throw your guests off the. Yeah. I guess I could get something to eat.

[00:18:54] Oh yeah. I could eat. There's a Mexican place down the street. That's it's fair.

[00:19:01] The traffic around here is, is very bad and the weather is, is very unpredictable.

[00:19:06] Yeah. I wouldn't want to hear him talk about the weather, much less anything else. Jesus Christ.

[00:19:11] But like I said, I think it was humid in South Africa.

[00:19:16] According to the verge, Gabby Del Valle and Kylie Robeson reporting the rest of X appears to be

[00:19:23] working normally. However, and a source of the company confirmed to the verge that there wasn't

[00:19:28] actually a denial of service attack. Another X staffer said there was a quote 99% chance Musk was

[00:19:36] lying. 99, you work for him and you're saying 99. You could tell they work for him because they're

[00:19:45] still doing the pulling statistics out of the air to sound smart. Like to my calculations.

[00:19:50] All statistically speaking. Yeah. You love statistically speaking people. And so the last bit of news we have this week is not

[00:19:58] thankfully Twitter related. This one goes offsite to another cesspool of nonsense and bullshit Reddit.

[00:20:07] So there is a entire subreddit devoted to aquariums. Do you know this? Well, I guess it's not all that surprising.

[00:20:13] There's a subreddit devoted to everything. Yeah. There's, there's a subreddit for car key shapes.

[00:20:18] I'm sure.

[00:20:19] It would be very funny if there was like some very specific lore about how no, we do not talk about

[00:20:24] aquariums on Reddit and you do not ask why it's just something like that.

[00:20:27] Is there some sort of mango steam equivalent?

[00:20:32] Gold belly mango steam.

[00:20:37] But yes, but our aquariums, the original post that set all this off

[00:20:42] was user was of Wonka. First of all, love it. The title, how to protect my aquarium from shockwaves

[00:20:50] caused by jet sonic booms under the help slash advice tag. He says, I live in Lebanon and there

[00:20:58] has been frequent jet sonic booms by Israelis. Some windows glass got broken. I have a 33 gallon

[00:21:06] aquarium made of glass. I am afraid if it breaks, what can I do to protect it from shockwaves? Should

[00:21:13] I cover it with yoga mat, foam mat or something that will create another problem where it will raise

[00:21:19] the temperature of the tank. I have it in my bedroom and I am keeping the window open. So it won't break.

[00:21:24] The post was very quickly locked and the moderators of the subreddit shut that shit down

[00:21:32] right quick. They removed it the day it was posted. So our aquariums users and mass started

[00:21:39] posting threads that were like, do impulsive events cause aquarium blowouts or how to protect

[00:21:48] my aquarium from shockwaves caused by jet sonic booms? PS I'm not middle Eastern. So you could leave

[00:21:53] this one up. Like careful purchase 394. Let's see here. Yeah. The mods did eventually respond.

[00:22:01] Took about a day or two, but the our aquariums moderator user squeaky T made a post. I want to

[00:22:08] apologize to everyone trying to access the sub today and encountering disruptions. We're doing

[00:22:13] what we can to clean it up and not catch legit posts in the process. What happened? A user from

[00:22:18] Lemadon made a thread asking if sonic booms from nearby Israeli planes could damage their fish tank.

[00:22:24] The question was answered and concern trolls started stirring up drama about the war,

[00:22:29] which is not relevant to aquariums. So the post was removed. There are edited and removed comments

[00:22:35] that are now missing, leading to some confusion about the reason for the removal. We have explained

[00:22:41] to the original poster why it was removed and apologize. Sometimes we remove things in anticipation

[00:22:46] of them becoming a shit show, especially if they've already received satisfactory answers.

[00:22:51] This was one of those cases. We'll discuss making changes to our removal process more clearly.

[00:22:56] Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. So those coming from outside of Reddit, he continues,

[00:23:00] nothing that you are doing helps Palestinians in any way.

[00:23:06] What you are doing is an activism. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have died in the war,

[00:23:11] but I'm sure their souls can all rest now knowing that a bunch of internet users have brigaded an

[00:23:18] aquarium subreddit in their name. Fair enough.

[00:23:23] Yeah, I'm kind of... I didn't really expect them to come around and...

[00:23:28] Yeah, I thought I was not going to be on the side of the mods for this one, ever.

[00:23:31] All right. Asked answered, I guess. Yeah.

[00:23:35] Fair enough. I mean, look, you know me. Nine times out of ten, I'm fuck the mods. They do it for free.

[00:23:42] Why do I... Jannies get wrecked. You know, mods new. I'm usually anti-mod, but that post, okay.

[00:23:51] All right. I'll give them that one. One.

[00:23:53] Yeah, I think just that. I think that's a perfectly reasonable explanation,

[00:23:56] but I also understand why it blew up because, like, I think it's one of the things about the story I think

[00:23:59] is pretty beautiful because, like, a big part of, like, the narrative, like, for the genocide is that,

[00:24:04] like, people in Gaza are uncivilized or whatever. And, like, I don't know if we've ever tried to have

[00:24:09] fish before. It's really hard to keep them alive. So someone having an aquarium, which is something

[00:24:14] that requires, like, a lot of work and a lot of prep, it requires a lot of patience and compassion,

[00:24:19] like, that is very much goes against that. So I see why this is something that would inflame

[00:24:22] people and why it kind of became, like, a touch point. And I'm glad that the aquarium users

[00:24:27] fought the good fight. Because in my experience, aquarium people can be very chill, but it's one

[00:24:31] of those things where it's, like, cool groups so long as you don't mention one or two things

[00:24:33] that will set them off. But there are a lot of cool aquarium people out there.

[00:24:37] Wait, wait, wait. Do you know a thing that is going to set aquarium people off? Because I think

[00:24:42] I'm in the mood for some trolling.

[00:24:44] Oh, no. Not, like, specifically.

[00:24:45] I love it when you tap the glass.

[00:24:46] A lot of aquarium people, it's, like, very sweet nerds or it's, like, retired people who are,

[00:24:51] like, you know, retired people with opinions, you know?

[00:24:54] Okay. All right. I thought it was something specific about aquariums. You're like, yeah,

[00:24:58] I just got this new one. I put a bunch of concrete at the bottom. Is that all right?

[00:25:02] Yeah, I just got this betta fish. I got this cube. It's, like, a third of a gallon. It came

[00:25:06] with it. It said it's enough, right? I put SpongeBob stickers on it.

[00:25:10] Oh, the betta fish.

[00:25:11] How come it's not doing tricks? It looks really sad for some reason.

[00:25:13] I know some people that had betta fish, but there's a never again. Because, yeah, it was

[00:25:17] such a nightmare to keep those fish both alive and entertained and not depressed.

[00:25:23] Living a life that is passable.

[00:25:26] Just like in modern America.

[00:25:29] Gosh.

[00:25:31] Capitalism. Yeah.

[00:25:33] Man, there's really no money sink in the world for, like, most people, like, in an aquarium.

[00:25:41] My mom had one for most of my time in high school. And it was just fucking wild. Like,

[00:25:50] how much money that fucking thing costs to keep going. The fish. She liked frogs. So we

[00:25:55] had aquatic frogs. We had some big ass fucking Oscars and shit. And I was pretty cool.

[00:26:01] Yeah. The frogs were pretty neat. Also, when my mom decided she was done with the aquarium,

[00:26:07] the amount of, like, tire kickers on Craigslist. Oh. Because she was trying to get rid of it for,

[00:26:13] like, a sweet price. But it's like, if you're willing to buy, like, a 30-gallon aquarium on

[00:26:19] Craigslist with a nice wood stand and everything and the filter and, you know, whatever. You already

[00:26:25] know the person selling it is probably really, they want the fuck out. Yeah. So you're just

[00:26:31] going to grind that person in the dirt. Well, because 30 gallons, that's pretty big.

[00:26:36] From what I recall. 30 gallons is what? Like, six feet across?

[00:26:40] 10 gallons is the size of, like, a terrarium you'd keep a mouse or a small lizard in. So imagine,

[00:26:45] like, three times that size. Okay. So yeah, I was just trying to get a mental image of it. Yeah,

[00:26:49] it's a big thing. You want it gone. And then you got people coming around and be like,

[00:26:53] well, I don't know. Would you take $50 for it? You know, that kind of shit.

[00:26:58] Like, get to your house and then they start lowballing you. Like, come on. Do this via

[00:27:01] email. Don't fuck with me when in my house. This could have been a scam email.

[00:27:05] Right. Do me the courtesy of scamming me via email instead of in person.

[00:27:10] Did she end up selling it? Did she end up getting rid of the kitchen?

[00:27:12] Yeah, I remember her selling it. I was, like, 18 or 19. And it was, like, some, like,

[00:27:18] overweight dude and, like, his wife that smelled like onions or something. It was,

[00:27:23] it was, like, the most unpleasant people I could have imagined at that time came in and were, like,

[00:27:29] yeah, it's an aquarium. And then, like, were really cagey about handing the money over. My mom is just,

[00:27:34] like, just get the fuck out of here.

[00:27:38] Yeah, hand me the money and get out. Just take, yeah, well, fucking put in the back of your truck.

[00:27:42] Yeah, it's like, okay, next time meet someone in the parking lot of the Dollar General. Don't do this at my house.

[00:27:47] With a 30-gallon tank in the back of your car? Yeah.

[00:27:50] Yeah, Jesus. In front of the police department, this is a Craigslist safe exchange spot?

[00:27:57] Like a needle exchange, like a Facebook Marketplace exchange tent you can go to.

[00:28:02] Everybody that I want to buy shit from always wants to meet me at the police station.

[00:28:05] And I'm like, all right, man, sure, okay, it's fine.

[00:28:08] But it's going to look really weird, but I hand somebody cash for, like, a bag of computer parts outside the police station more than it would anywhere else.

[00:28:19] Now I'm about to do, like, a mix between, like, an automat and one of those Amazon Dropboxes where it's, like, people selling it.

[00:28:25] It's like, okay, you put your item in the box. You go in your car. I go to the box. I put the money in. We swap them.

[00:28:30] I'm like, something like that.

[00:28:32] I don't know. That seems pretty good to me.

[00:28:34] Yeah, that could be worse.

[00:28:35] Facebook Automat. I'd use that.

[00:28:37] Well, I guess it's about that time. I guess it's time for Crypto Scam of the Week, folks.

[00:28:43] You're listening to 48 Minutes of Dogs Barking, the podcast.

[00:28:47] And now it's time for the Crypto Scam of the Week.

[00:28:50] The only thing worse than buying an aquarium is investing in cryptocurrency.

[00:28:56] You know it's a good week for crypto scams when there's multiple in one story, and here we are again.

[00:29:02] This courtesy of Decrypt.

[00:29:04] I can't get over the name of this one.

[00:29:07] So this is Ryan S. Gladwin writing for Decrypt.

[00:29:10] A nutritional supplements company allegedly paid a group of online trolls to impersonate celebrities, fool its investors, and pump its token.

[00:29:22] And the scheme worked for a while.

[00:29:24] The company is called Insane Labs with a Z.

[00:29:30] Oh, Lord.

[00:29:31] Everything about this one's real good.

[00:29:33] An Arkansas-based supplement company and a former client of Gary Vanderchuck.

[00:29:40] Yes, Gary V's startup mentorship program.

[00:29:43] So they launched the Labs token in May.

[00:29:46] On its roadmap, the project promised to collaborate with, quote, vetted celebrities.

[00:29:53] Instead, they got impersonators to hype the token in the Telegram group.

[00:29:59] Brian, are you familiar with Insane Labs?

[00:30:01] I'm familiar with the supplement.

[00:30:04] I think I've seen it once or twice when looking for stuff online.

[00:30:07] I will not be trying their wares.

[00:30:11] After this?

[00:30:13] Jesus.

[00:30:15] So among the celebrities impersonated, UFC president Dana White, MMA legend Nate Diaz, and social media sensation Hasbola.

[00:30:26] That's the little guy, right?

[00:30:28] The guy hits his cat.

[00:30:30] Yeah.

[00:30:31] Oh, no.

[00:30:32] They impersonated Hasbola.

[00:30:34] They impersonated someone who doesn't speak English.

[00:30:37] Yeah.

[00:30:37] Very strange.

[00:30:38] So one investor who wished to remain anonymous.

[00:30:41] Yeah, I would, too, if I invested in this shit.

[00:30:43] The toll decrypt, quote, it was supposed to get endorsed by Dana White and was going to get advertised on the UFC.

[00:30:49] I dropped in another few hundred dollars, he said, claiming to have lost over $475 in total.

[00:30:55] It was, quote, a lot for the investor.

[00:30:58] That, okay, 500 bucks hurts.

[00:31:01] But it's not your life savings.

[00:31:03] I'll reserve judgment on him.

[00:31:05] I'm assuming it's a him invested in crypto.

[00:31:08] And he was hyped about Dana White.

[00:31:09] So, you know, just putting two and two together there.

[00:31:12] Insane Labs, of course, did not respond to decrypt's request for comment.

[00:31:16] Blockchain data reviewed by decrypt and bubble maps shows that a wallet linked to the Insane Labs team paid the trolls a small sum, $155 in Solana each.

[00:31:27] That ain't nothing.

[00:31:28] Yeah, that's like when we found out those two aldermen for St. Louis.

[00:31:34] Two aldermen who, Reed was one of them.

[00:31:37] Like, just, like, two people that had been in St. Louis politics for way too fucking long.

[00:31:42] Two, like, noxious, cancerous individuals got caught taking bribes.

[00:31:47] Jeffrey Boyd and Louis Reed.

[00:31:51] Who, just two people, like, get the fuck out of St. Louis politics.

[00:31:55] Been there for way too long.

[00:31:57] Or spoilers on a mayoral election that got us stuck with someone who was a one-term mayor and sucked the entire time.

[00:32:04] Just two people that can go fucking get strapped to a fucking rocket and get shot at the sun.

[00:32:09] But, yeah, they accepted, like, $14,000.

[00:32:12] It was, like, nothing.

[00:32:13] It was such a, like, all their, it was like, you did it for, like, fucking, like, pocket change in the world of corruption.

[00:32:18] Yeah, people sell out so cheap.

[00:32:21] Like, Joe Biden's kids still had to pay off student loans.

[00:32:23] Oh.

[00:32:26] One of the guys, Collins Muhammad, did get $13,500 in cash, $3,000 in campaign contributions, a Volkswagen CC sedan.

[00:32:36] Okay, that's a little better.

[00:32:37] And an iPhone 11.

[00:32:40] Okay, well, I can get that.

[00:32:42] What was the other one?

[00:32:43] $10,000.

[00:32:44] He used the money to buy a 2008 Chevy Trailblazer.

[00:32:48] Oh, hell yeah.

[00:32:50] Jesus.

[00:32:50] Jesus.

[00:32:51] Dream bigger, fellas.

[00:32:52] Baby, you gotta understand.

[00:32:53] It's high mileage on this motor.

[00:32:56] It's high mileage.

[00:32:57] 250,000 miles.

[00:32:59] Listen, the rust's already there.

[00:33:00] We ain't gotta start it.

[00:33:01] Yeah.

[00:33:04] The spark plugs smell like old sheep.

[00:33:06] Let's just, just bust some piece of shit, Trevi.

[00:33:09] Like, my dude.

[00:33:10] Like, you could just, like, wait for someone to dump one by the train tracks in Sojay.

[00:33:16] Yeah.

[00:33:17] You could have walked.

[00:33:18] You could have waited for a tornado to go through the junkyard in December 1, just out of parts.

[00:33:22] Yeah, Southern Illinois, you'd get that in, like, a couple weeks.

[00:33:24] Anyway, what we're getting at is, like, you're selling people out for such little money.

[00:33:30] For pocket change.

[00:33:31] Jesus.

[00:33:31] Which says something about what one party thinks of the other, but what both parties think of the marks.

[00:33:37] Because here's the detail about Hasbola, right?

[00:33:41] The real Hasbola Magomedovic Magomedov.

[00:33:45] Jesus.

[00:33:46] Does not speak English, as you said.

[00:33:48] The fake influencer playing the part only communicated through Google Translate and GIFs.

[00:33:54] Yeah, that's part of why the payday is so funny is when we say impersonating them, it wasn't, like, using AI to do, like, fake live streams of people killing it.

[00:34:02] Like, they were just making text posts.

[00:34:04] Like, have you ever seen a guy on Twitter who uses Bill Murray as an avatar?

[00:34:07] Basically that.

[00:34:08] Oh, God, yeah.

[00:34:09] Or the guys that used to pretend to be, like, Kevin Hart on there.

[00:34:12] And they're all terrible.

[00:34:15] The two wallets linked to Insane Labs sold $12,450 worth of Labs tokens during the 12-hour period where it jumped 115%.

[00:34:26] So, you know, they didn't even get away with all that much.

[00:34:30] $12,000?

[00:34:31] $12,000, but apparently, if we hear a little further, an unidentified whale offloaded over $70,000 worth of the token,

[00:34:39] which, again, pretty small in the world of crypto scams.

[00:34:43] We're used to seeing tens of millions of dollars here.

[00:34:46] This is just more, like, weird and petty and desperate.

[00:34:51] Yeah.

[00:34:52] Yeah, this seems like a lot of work.

[00:34:54] You're hiring people.

[00:34:55] You're doing a telegram.

[00:34:56] Yeah, I mean, it feels like, man, just, I don't know, do anything but this.

[00:35:01] Insane Labs created Labs token emojis with the celebrity's face on them

[00:35:06] and would hype the chat whenever they posted.

[00:35:08] The investor, who wished to remain anonymous, again, I understand, told Decrypt.

[00:35:13] The investor claimed that the Insane Labs CEO, Dustin LeBlanc,

[00:35:17] even pretended to have a FaceTime chat with the real Dana White regarding the project.

[00:35:23] The founder posted about a FaceTime chat he had had with Dana White,

[00:35:27] asking Dana if he had any screenshots of the chat.

[00:35:30] Members of the chat, including the trolls and the individual investors,

[00:35:34] say they believe it was LeBlanc who ran the account.

[00:35:37] He later posted what I believe to be a doctored photo of a FaceTime chat

[00:35:42] to make it seem legit.

[00:35:43] And yeah, it's just, there's a picture of Dana White on the phone

[00:35:46] and his face is just, like, awkwardly inserted in the corner.

[00:35:52] Amazing.

[00:35:53] This is just top-tier shit.

[00:35:55] Try to convince the one to cam girl as your girlfriend.

[00:35:58] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:36:00] I love the number of people.

[00:36:02] There were, like, 2,000 members of this Telegram channel.

[00:36:05] It's just, they're sitting there like,

[00:36:06] yeah, fucking let the haters hate.

[00:36:09] Let's go.

[00:36:10] So, of course, they said, well, you know,

[00:36:12] you gotta pump the token if you want to get these UFC tickets

[00:36:16] that Dana White is giving us.

[00:36:18] There were no tickets.

[00:36:19] Dana White's not in line.

[00:36:20] Absolutely ridiculous.

[00:36:21] This type of thing will continue.

[00:36:23] It would have been a lot funnier if it was Joe Rogan instead of Dana White.

[00:36:26] Fair.

[00:36:26] I think.

[00:36:27] That is fair.

[00:36:29] How would they tell?

[00:36:30] That is also fair.

[00:36:32] They're both.

[00:36:33] The perfect crime.

[00:36:34] They're both thumb-shaped white guys.

[00:36:36] I don't know.

[00:36:37] I mean, Joe Rogan does have a very distinctive face.

[00:36:41] I'd love to go at Joe Rogan's face with some calipers.

[00:36:43] Well, there's that.

[00:36:45] Get your skull shapes.

[00:36:48] Okay.

[00:36:49] What are we working with here?

[00:36:51] A lazy slav?

[00:36:52] You'll never guess.

[00:36:55] Doing the transvestigation with the triangle between the eyes and the nose.

[00:36:59] You've got the eyeball crest of a shifty Eskimo.

[00:37:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:37:03] The swarthy Sudanese.

[00:37:06] There's somewhere in there.

[00:37:07] Yeah.

[00:37:07] Just unbelievable.

[00:37:09] Levels upon levels of shitposting and fakery.

[00:37:13] And please tell me, are you the real Hezbollah?

[00:37:15] Somebody says.

[00:37:16] And here, it's just a gif of a Hezbollah on a jet ski.

[00:37:21] It's like, that's not an answer.

[00:37:23] That's so fucking good.

[00:37:25] Please excuse Billy from class.

[00:37:27] This is his mom.

[00:37:28] Yeah.

[00:37:29] This is Epstein's mother.

[00:37:31] No type of thing.

[00:37:34] I have a story I can tell here.

[00:37:37] So in high school.

[00:37:39] God, if I've told this, if I've told on the podcast, I'm sorry.

[00:37:41] Yeah.

[00:37:42] In high school, I had a friend and her mom was from Vietnam.

[00:37:45] And she spoke in a very stereotypical Vietnamese accent.

[00:37:50] Very sweet lady.

[00:37:52] But she spoke like she was about to tell you when to pick up your dry cleaning.

[00:37:56] I'm sorry to say.

[00:37:58] And two of her friends skipped school and got my friend out of school by calling up

[00:38:04] and talking to the lady at the switchboard in a bad Asian accent.

[00:38:08] Oh, no.

[00:38:09] And got their friend out of school.

[00:38:12] Oh, no.

[00:38:13] Because I was in class with them.

[00:38:15] And it was like, Vicky, come down to the office.

[00:38:19] Your mom is here to pick you up.

[00:38:20] And she was like, the fuck?

[00:38:23] Yeah.

[00:38:23] And got to a car.

[00:38:25] And it was her two friends.

[00:38:26] They're like, yeah, let's go smoke weed.

[00:38:28] And she's like, oh, okay.

[00:38:32] Unbelievable.

[00:38:33] That is like my personal jigsaw trap.

[00:38:35] It's like, will you be ironically racist to save your friend?

[00:38:39] What if I just do one?

[00:38:41] Yeah.

[00:38:41] Is that enough jigsaw?

[00:38:42] If I just do one eye?

[00:38:43] Is that?

[00:38:45] Yeah.

[00:38:45] We just don't record it.

[00:38:47] Just don't record it.

[00:38:47] No one will ever know I said it, right?

[00:38:49] No, it's got to be on the internet.

[00:38:51] So they know it's a bid.

[00:38:52] Yeah.

[00:38:55] Put my theme music under it so they know.

[00:38:57] It's just, we're just doing a thing.

[00:38:59] Yeah.

[00:38:59] Put the ad break music under it.

[00:39:00] Everyone will skip it then.

[00:39:01] You know, in the two years we've been doing this show, we have not done ads.

[00:39:05] Isn't that weird?

[00:39:06] No, me doesn't either.

[00:39:07] Yeah.

[00:39:07] I mean, I'm kind of glad we don't have to deal with that.

[00:39:10] It seems like a lot of work from what I've heard about from it.

[00:39:13] It seems like, well, those things were like, okay, now I have to pay a pro to edit and do

[00:39:17] all this other stuff.

[00:39:18] I'm like, eh, I'm DIY man.

[00:39:20] I don't care.

[00:39:21] Well, anyway.

[00:39:22] It reminds me of like in the eighties, a thing that like trashy TV shows would do.

[00:39:26] They would hire celebrity impersonators to sit in the audience of events to make it

[00:39:29] look like it was more like high class than it actually was.

[00:39:32] Like you'd hire a Cyndi Lauper impersonator to sit in the front row.

[00:39:35] So the audience would think Cyndi Lauper was there.

[00:39:37] This is like the same vibe as that, except like more small potatoes.

[00:39:41] Like if you're going to impersonate someone, you could like, why not impersonate?

[00:39:44] Like, you know, like usually when people do this, it's like deep fakes of Elon Musk or

[00:39:48] Tom Cruise or something.

[00:39:49] I guess it's knowing your audience.

[00:39:51] Yeah.

[00:39:51] It's very funny.

[00:39:52] Like we're going to do like some MMA people and like an internet person.

[00:39:55] Yeah.

[00:39:55] And Hezbollah.

[00:39:56] Like what the fuck?

[00:39:58] This guy, this little guy.

[00:40:00] All right.

[00:40:00] I guess it got people hyped.

[00:40:02] I guess.

[00:40:03] I don't know, man.

[00:40:04] Like, you know what?

[00:40:05] If I was in a telegram channel about a coin and it looked like the guy from Dracula flow

[00:40:11] was in there, I might get duped by that.

[00:40:13] I might get duped by Dracula.

[00:40:15] He's he's back by the way, on Instagram, doing his own thing, not under plumb corp as

[00:40:20] King Drac.

[00:40:22] That's awesome.

[00:40:22] Just do your search.

[00:40:23] The plumb corp has been a little, a little quiet lately.

[00:40:27] Yeah.

[00:40:28] But it's, it's melted by brain because anytime, like I talked to a coworker at this job, that

[00:40:33] mystery job I got, like, I'm just goofing around, I'll call them like big, whatever,

[00:40:37] like, you know, big Chris.

[00:40:39] And then I want to just say, you know, with the monkey nuts, he's got shooters.

[00:40:43] Yeah.

[00:40:43] He kills for his cousins.

[00:40:45] Yeah.

[00:40:47] Jesus.

[00:40:48] Do you guys see the bad wizard one?

[00:40:49] Oh God.

[00:40:50] No.

[00:40:51] Jay, are you up on your plumb corp records lore?

[00:40:54] Are you familiar with this at all?

[00:40:55] No, I'm not actually.

[00:40:57] All right.

[00:40:57] So it's a, it's a YouTube channel ostensibly for a clothing line, but the clothing line is

[00:41:01] all like really cracked out street wear.

[00:41:03] And so it started in my mind, it started with Dracula flow.

[00:41:08] It's this actor, Charles Walker in really cheap, shitty Dracula costume talking about how he's

[00:41:16] like, uh, what was it?

[00:41:17] He's throwing bands at the, at the ancient pyramid.

[00:41:20] They forgot I'm him.

[00:41:22] That's right.

[00:41:25] Perk.

[00:41:26] I dropped a perk 30 and went straight to fucking.

[00:41:29] Yeah.

[00:41:29] Yeah.

[00:41:29] Just absolute shit posting in verbal form.

[00:41:32] Cause they gave him this like list of shit to read.

[00:41:34] And so he's just sitting there and they did five of them.

[00:41:38] I mean, and it totals out to like 20 minutes of just this old guy shit talking and crappy

[00:41:43] Dracula.

[00:41:44] And like, there's like, like it's melting off of him.

[00:41:46] And it's very obviously a hot where they are.

[00:41:49] Yeah.

[00:41:50] Cause like, they're like in, they're like in the desert.

[00:41:52] They're somewhere in the Southwest.

[00:41:53] You like, cause they just like find random people.

[00:41:55] They're like actors on Craigslist.

[00:41:57] Cause that's where they found a Walker.

[00:41:58] Yeah.

[00:41:59] Cause they found him off like Craigslist or his IMDB page or something.

[00:42:02] And they're like, Oh yeah, we got to hire this guy.

[00:42:04] There's one where they're like shitty wizards.

[00:42:08] And there's this one guy that's just like the guy you hire to be a stand in from William

[00:42:13] the foe.

[00:42:14] Okay.

[00:42:14] Long shot.

[00:42:15] Okay.

[00:42:16] And he's like, she wizard get up and he's like, you know, anytime I see a back to stop

[00:42:20] broken, I get a little unreasonable.

[00:42:25] Like one of the guys is just also like jacked and kind of looks like a Rob Van Dam, the wrestler.

[00:42:31] Okay.

[00:42:32] It's just like, just like walking around, like looking for Zaza.

[00:42:35] And like, he's got these huge biceps and these big shoulders.

[00:42:41] And he's like, yeah, looking for the Zaza man.

[00:42:47] So if you haven't, uh, search plum corp records, it's plum with two Ms, a C O R P, uh, on YouTube

[00:42:53] there.

[00:42:53] It's a plethora of weird shit.

[00:42:55] They had a whole thing where their channel was taken over by what was it like a Turkish

[00:43:00] cooking channel?

[00:43:02] It was like, uh, Oh my gosh, that's fantastic.

[00:43:05] Okay.

[00:43:06] It was a Filipino cooking channel.

[00:43:07] That's right.

[00:43:08] Apparently the guy behind it used to be like a YouTube prankster and also like an MMA

[00:43:12] guy or streamer or something.

[00:43:14] Yeah.

[00:43:14] Joe G zoomer guy.

[00:43:16] And then he just like, I guess decided like he wanted to make like the Wes Anderson of

[00:43:20] weird internet males that look like everything's filmed like on the old CCD digital camera from

[00:43:26] 20 years ago.

[00:43:27] Yes.

[00:43:28] Yeah.

[00:43:28] Absolutely.

[00:43:29] Yeah.

[00:43:29] Mini DV.

[00:43:30] Yeah.

[00:43:31] Just shorty lane eggs.

[00:43:33] Oh God.

[00:43:35] The, the whole song where it's just like part city.

[00:43:37] Back in Florida, there was this guy I knew about who was like, it would be on local news a

[00:43:41] lot where he ran this organization called Amrack, which is karma spelled backwards.

[00:43:47] That's how he began.

[00:43:48] And every video was the name.

[00:43:50] I run armack.

[00:43:51] Armack is karma spelled backwards.

[00:43:53] It's about taking your haters and turning their words around back on them.

[00:43:56] Okay.

[00:43:57] And his thing was, it was ostensibly an anti-bullying charity, but what it was, was he would get

[00:44:01] kids to volunteer for it.

[00:44:03] And then he's like, we're going to make videos.

[00:44:05] So they feel good about themselves to make up for the harm to their self-esteem to bullying.

[00:44:08] And the video they made was an ad for shoes.

[00:44:13] And his thing was, these are anti-bullying shoes.

[00:44:16] When you buy them, it takes a donation to this anti-bullying charity.

[00:44:19] And he literally marketed them as anti-bullying.

[00:44:21] She's like, well, these are the first anti-bullying sneakers.

[00:44:24] And, and like just this whole thing being a griff to sell shoes.

[00:44:27] And he was like going on local news people and the local news anchors were being like,

[00:44:30] it's great to seeing someone taking advantage, like fighting back against bullying and him

[00:44:34] just using these kids as props.

[00:44:35] Like, like the origin story of Armack was like, he, he couldn't even like talk about being

[00:44:40] bullied as a kid.

[00:44:41] The origin story was that he used to work in Hollywood and someone like slided him on

[00:44:45] a project that he felt like he deserved credit on.

[00:44:47] So he decided to dedicate himself to fighting bullying.

[00:44:49] Like he makes everything about him in such a weird way.

[00:44:52] Like he's such a fascinating character.

[00:44:54] Like I would love to do something about him sometime.

[00:44:56] Holy shit.

[00:44:57] But, uh, by the way, it is CJ.

[00:44:59] The Sagittarius is the song about perk city and older gentlemen.

[00:45:02] He's got like an entire carton of a new port sacked at his hand.

[00:45:07] It's so bizarre.

[00:45:08] And there's also like shots of him, like flipping it between his finger.

[00:45:11] Like he's doing a card trick, like the pack of, of new ports.

[00:45:14] It's so good.

[00:45:15] That's why I've been recording this whole time.

[00:45:17] I just like the whole thing and smoke it at once.

[00:45:19] It's pretty neat.

[00:45:20] You got the 3d printed, uh, a 20 cigarette, uh, holder there.

[00:45:24] God.

[00:45:25] Yeah.

[00:45:26] For when it's been a rough day.

[00:45:27] I have a 3d printer that just 3d prints the cigarettes.

[00:45:30] Hell yeah.

[00:45:30] It takes like five minutes to make one, but I never have to leave at the store again.

[00:45:33] You just sit there chain smoking.

[00:45:35] You're just like, well, let me hit start again.

[00:45:37] Yeah.

[00:45:39] Yeah.

[00:45:39] It's like, I'm getting twice the cancer now.

[00:45:41] Damn right.

[00:45:42] There's no good segue.

[00:45:43] So our main topic tonight is something near and dear to Jay's heart.

[00:45:47] I know in particular, and many of you out there, I'm sure it's the website for affinity now.

[00:45:52] Yeah.

[00:45:53] I'm really excited to get to talk about this with you guys.

[00:45:55] Cause yeah.

[00:45:56] So this is, if you're not a furry, it's probably being surprised how big this site was and how

[00:46:00] much it means to how many people.

[00:46:02] Well, what's really interesting to me is that it wasn't the first one.

[00:46:06] It's just the one that most people know, right?

[00:46:09] Cause I, if I remember correctly, based on what I'm reading here on the, the wiki fur entry,

[00:46:14] it was launched January, 2005 as an alternative to Sheezy art because Sheezy art was one of

[00:46:22] the bigger sites, but Sheezy art decided because the hosting company said so that they were going

[00:46:29] to say, we're don't host adult content anymore.

[00:46:32] We don't host anything adult, nothing.

[00:46:35] Websites were pulling that bullshit.

[00:46:38] Well, not only that, but they were constantly begging for money because the servers needed

[00:46:42] upkeep and all that.

[00:46:43] I guess I will say before we go a little deeper, I can give you like a little history

[00:46:46] on furry art sites.

[00:46:47] Cause yeah, like before all this, like, like originally the earliest big furry art site

[00:46:51] was VCL, the Villan Central Library.

[00:46:54] And it was just like a file hosting site where you would have like, just like you could upload

[00:46:58] images there and people could see them, but there weren't comments.

[00:47:01] There wasn't really a social media thing.

[00:47:02] It was like, you had to be invited to it.

[00:47:04] It was kind of exclusive and everyone just kind of used that.

[00:47:07] But then DeviantArt came along and it had these social features that were really neat.

[00:47:11] Like you could comment on stuff, you could follow people and get updates on them.

[00:47:15] But the community there was very not friendly to furry.

[00:47:18] So it was very on, you know, they didn't want to be there.

[00:47:20] And then Sheezy Art came along, was very explicitly trying to be like, we're DeviantArt for furries.

[00:47:24] Like their mascot is even a raccoon.

[00:47:26] That's the same colors as the DeviantArt.

[00:47:28] I was going to say, it looked very familiar and that was why.

[00:47:32] Okay.

[00:47:32] Yeah.

[00:47:32] And so that was explicitly what it was.

[00:47:34] And so that's why they kind of blew up.

[00:47:36] And then, yeah, like you said, a big part of that too was, you know, VCL was an adult site.

[00:47:41] Like you could put porn on there if you wanted to.

[00:47:43] And then a lot of the other big furry sites were trying to be like, no, we want to be like

[00:47:47] a serious furry site.

[00:47:48] We're not going to allow porn.

[00:47:49] We can have adult stuff.

[00:47:50] Or it's like, you can have porn, but you can't have like weird porn.

[00:47:53] You can't have like the fetish stuff or whatever.

[00:47:56] And so Sheezy Art being a place where people could go there and post that for the most part

[00:47:59] was kind of big.

[00:48:00] Yeah.

[00:48:01] And then they threw that away.

[00:48:02] And then when Fur Affinity came along, that was kind of the big thing.

[00:48:04] The idea that it wasn't like, we're going to silo the weird people off into their own

[00:48:08] thing or kick them off.

[00:48:09] It was just like, no, like when you go to Fur Affinity, you can just straight up search

[00:48:12] by categories.

[00:48:12] Like, do you want to see fat stuff?

[00:48:14] Do you want to see pregnant stuff?

[00:48:15] Do you want to see giants?

[00:48:16] Like it's just right baked into the website that it's like embraces all the weird stuff that

[00:48:21] the other sites wanted to exclude.

[00:48:22] Yeah.

[00:48:23] And that immediately drew my mind to when Something Awful basically gave birth to 4chan

[00:48:28] because they were trying to kick anime weird ass and pedophiles off their website.

[00:48:34] Marshall Banana and Kentar and all these terrible people and flocked over to Something Awful.

[00:48:41] And then that's how we got January 6th.

[00:48:44] Well, there's that.

[00:48:45] Yeah.

[00:48:46] Yeah.

[00:48:48] But Fur Affinity was definitely, for a while, they're kind of the Wild West as far as furry

[00:48:54] art goes.

[00:48:55] I mean, it was very much anything goes.

[00:48:57] It was, yeah.

[00:48:58] Like, especially when it first started out, like in the early 2000s when they were really

[00:49:02] like sort of figuring things out and also like enforcing it.

[00:49:04] But like that is one of the, like I'm glad that you brought up Something Awful because

[00:49:07] I think that's actually a pretty good comparison in a lot of ways.

[00:49:10] Because, you know, this was a website that was made in 2004 and it's gotten some, a few

[00:49:13] updates, but it's largely like a web 1.0 website.

[00:49:16] And that's where a lot of the appeal is in it.

[00:49:18] It's like Something Awful.

[00:49:19] People like to use it because there isn't an algorithm.

[00:49:21] There isn't like any sort of social media integration.

[00:49:24] It's just, you go there, there's pictures, there's journals, and you can just, you can

[00:49:27] use it like, like an old website.

[00:49:29] And the parallels with Something Awful are very strong there too, like I said.

[00:49:33] But also, whereas Lotax was the guy who created Something Awful and always ran it.

[00:49:37] Fur Affinity was originally founded by someone named Alcora.

[00:49:40] And then the person who kind of was the inceptionist, Dragoneer, was, they were there from the beginning,

[00:49:45] but they took over after a couple years.

[00:49:46] That was a part of it too, was it was started by someone else.

[00:49:49] They, they stepped away and then someone else took over and had to kind of readjust it.

[00:49:52] And then it was always kind of in a, you know, sort of perpetually in a state of like adjustment

[00:49:57] and changing.

[00:49:58] Because I understand in the early years, there were, you know, there were problems with hacking.

[00:50:01] There were problems with, you know, because it was a web 1.0 site, there were a lot of

[00:50:05] security issues.

[00:50:06] It was hacked a couple of times, but it always came back, right?

[00:50:09] Because the community was always there for it.

[00:50:11] There was always donations coming in, buying server hardware.

[00:50:15] There's such a strong community that came from somewhere else that clearly didn't want

[00:50:20] them, that they built their own thing and kept it going for so long.

[00:50:25] Because the reason we're talking about Fur Affinity this week is because last week you

[00:50:30] mentioned Dragoneer, he passed away.

[00:50:32] And it was a huge outpouring that I saw online of support for Fur Affinity and for people who

[00:50:39] grew up on that site.

[00:50:41] Because, you know, again, it's 2005 is when they, you know, really started making a name

[00:50:46] for themselves.

[00:50:47] And so, you know, it's been almost 20 years that that site's been going and that Dragoneer

[00:50:51] has been a huge part of it.

[00:50:53] It was really astounding because I knew it existed, you know, it was in the back of my

[00:50:57] mind, but I'm not part of that community.

[00:50:59] I'm not a furry.

[00:51:00] I don't go seeking that content out.

[00:51:03] And so it just kind of was always there.

[00:51:05] And it never occurred to me like, yeah, there have been people like living and doing on

[00:51:11] this site for almost 20 years.

[00:51:14] And that was like, damn, yeah, that's really rare.

[00:51:18] I mean, the fact that it's still up, you know, like.

[00:51:23] Yeah, it really is, especially with furry sites, because like before this furry sites would usually

[00:51:27] only be big for a couple of years, then new one come along.

[00:51:29] And afterwards, like every couple of years, someone tries to launch a new Fur Affinity competitor.

[00:51:33] And unless they carve out a specific niche for themselves, they don't really stick around

[00:51:37] or find an audience.

[00:51:38] Because, yeah, it's what fur phase, what people use, because it's what it's what's there.

[00:51:42] It's where the community is.

[00:51:43] And it's it's it's easy.

[00:51:44] It's it's it's just it's what it works.

[00:51:47] It's the default.

[00:51:48] It's the it's the site that you go to, because, yeah, that's where furries are.

[00:51:51] And you go where the people are.

[00:51:52] There have definitely been like conflicts over the years about like how the site should be

[00:51:55] run in moderation decisions on it.

[00:51:57] Like I mentioned about like for any competitors, like one of the only big ones that really carved

[00:52:01] out a niche for itself was Ink Bunny, because Fur Affinity has a rule.

[00:52:05] You're not allowed to have cub art on there, which is basically the furry equivalent of

[00:52:09] like Lollicon.

[00:52:10] And so Ink Bunny was like, hey, we're a free speech site.

[00:52:12] You can draw all that stuff you want.

[00:52:14] So now Ink Bunny is just the site for furry pedophiles.

[00:52:16] Like it's whatever you see.

[00:52:18] If you're a furry and you see someone with an Ink Bunny account, it's always just like

[00:52:20] oh yeah.

[00:52:22] Yeah.

[00:52:23] Because a cub stuff and all that is like, I mean, it's sure.

[00:52:27] It's just your thing or whatever, but like this is ostensibly the hub for community.

[00:52:31] Like, yeah, you don't want that to be around there because it's like you want everyone to

[00:52:33] feel safe and comfortable there.

[00:52:35] And regardless of your feelings about like fantasy and reality, it's just like there are

[00:52:39] people who are going to be upset by that.

[00:52:40] There are people who are going to be triggered by that.

[00:52:42] And like, yeah, it's also like from a business perspective, like one of the ways that Fur

[00:52:45] Affinity supported itself was instead of having like traditional third-party advertisers,

[00:52:49] they did community advertising, like something awful.

[00:52:51] You could buy a banner ad on there.

[00:52:53] The payment processors have always been a big part of that too, is like complying with that.

[00:52:56] So I definitely think they made the right call with that.

[00:52:58] I 100% agree with that.

[00:53:00] Like if you cannot tell me how derisive I was when I was talking about Ink Bunny, obviously,

[00:53:04] but yeah, I guess, you know, it's just, yeah, running a site that is very openly an adult

[00:53:09] website is, is very complicated.

[00:53:12] And I do not, I do not envy being, the fact that he stuck with it that long is, is just

[00:53:17] honestly impressive.

[00:53:18] Cause yeah, like, like, you know, like on something off, like when people get banned from a site,

[00:53:22] some people just never let it go.

[00:53:23] Like imagine someone getting banned from like the one place where they can get their weird,

[00:53:26] like furry porn from, and then just imagine them never letting it go.

[00:53:29] Just like the hatred that burns into you over the years from that.

[00:53:32] Well, yeah, because they had their own version of the something awful 10 bucks.

[00:53:37] This was five bucks.

[00:53:38] You could get your Fur Affinity plus your FA plus that opted out of advertising.

[00:53:43] Did you have to pay extra for search?

[00:53:49] Let's see.

[00:53:50] No, you paid more for the ability to browse more submissions per page on browse search

[00:53:58] and gallery and bigger with them.

[00:54:00] Yeah.

[00:54:00] It was more of like a supporting the page and getting like, it's supporting a site and

[00:54:03] getting low perks thing, like an actual like legit subscription thing.

[00:54:06] Like that is, they have tried to add ways to monetize this over the year that have never

[00:54:09] really been super popular.

[00:54:10] Or like a recent one they did is they added the ability to tip money directly by buying

[00:54:14] them shinies.

[00:54:15] And like, I never see anyone using that.

[00:54:17] Wait, what's a shiny?

[00:54:19] It's like their version of like, you know, when you like buy stuff on like the Xbox, you

[00:54:22] have to have like Microsoft bucks.

[00:54:24] Okay.

[00:54:24] Shinies are their thing.

[00:54:25] I think you can tip someone a shiny, which is like five bucks or whatever.

[00:54:28] Okay.

[00:54:28] So it's a currency to use only on that website.

[00:54:31] Yeah.

[00:54:31] It's just like, it's just like a cutesy name for like, or like the bits on Twitch.

[00:54:35] I gotcha.

[00:54:35] So it's an insight currency.

[00:54:36] That's fascinating.

[00:54:37] Okay.

[00:54:38] So Jay, your history with Fur Affinity, do you have specific like events that come to

[00:54:44] mind?

[00:54:44] Cause I know they were one of the first websites that would put together a furry specific convention.

[00:54:49] Yeah.

[00:54:50] They, they did their own convention, which was a big thing too in the 2000s when like

[00:54:54] usually the conventions had been going since the eighties, but having one specifically for

[00:54:57] a website like that was pretty unusual.

[00:54:59] And yeah, I have a lot of personal experiences with, with Fur Affinity.

[00:55:03] Like before it came along, like as a weird furry, like it was, it was just really hard

[00:55:08] to find other people that were into the same things that you were.

[00:55:11] Like usually you had to go to like Yahoo groups or Google groups and find people and be like

[00:55:15] just the groups of like a couple dozen or like a BB code forum where there's like a

[00:55:18] couple people.

[00:55:19] And then when Fur Affinity came along, all of a sudden everyone was in the same place

[00:55:22] and you're like, Oh wow, there's a lot more of us than I thought.

[00:55:25] And it was like saying it's profound sounds silly, but yeah, being like, Oh, I'm not alone.

[00:55:29] There just weren't, we just didn't have a way of getting in touch until now.

[00:55:31] And it's, it's very, it was very gratifying.

[00:55:33] That's one of the reasons why there's such a strong sense of community is just the fact

[00:55:37] that there are so many, so many people there.

[00:55:38] And as a personal level, it was, it legitimately was, was very, especially growing up in a place

[00:55:43] where furries were not welcome on the internet.

[00:55:45] Right.

[00:55:45] Yeah.

[00:55:46] Like deviant art.

[00:55:47] When I, I, when I was a teenager, a lot of furries post on there, it was the big furry

[00:55:50] art site and you would just get bullied constantly for posting furry art.

[00:55:53] Like teenagers that were drawing anime and like dudes with like untextured handgun renders would just

[00:55:57] be calling you slurs for drawing a skunk with big boobs or whatever.

[00:56:01] It was like, it was such a hostile environment.

[00:56:04] Cause that was before they really have the management abilities to like block as much and

[00:56:07] everything.

[00:56:08] And also just, it was a more hostile place.

[00:56:09] So fur affinity being a place where it was like, no, you can, if you want to draw Sabrina

[00:56:14] from Sabrina online with like giant knockers, go right ahead.

[00:56:16] People are going to be into it.

[00:56:17] No one's going to judge you for it.

[00:56:19] Well, I mean, I think that's really important.

[00:56:22] You know, online spaces where you can feel safe are huge for, for people.

[00:56:25] And no matter what your sub genre, your, your niche community is.

[00:56:29] And I keep coming back to 19 years, but not many websites from that time period are still

[00:56:35] around the archive.org is a graveyard of a lot of these sites that were also very niche.

[00:56:42] Particularly like a community website.

[00:56:44] I feel like, uh, like furries are like the Linux users of the internet.

[00:56:48] Oh, there's a lot of overlap by the way.

[00:56:51] Oh yeah.

[00:56:52] No, tell me, I work for an open source software engineer with a green.

[00:56:56] I was going to say, yeah.

[00:56:59] Fred's got, was that a, the Tanuki or is he a raccoon?

[00:57:02] I can't remember.

[00:57:03] He's a raccoon.

[00:57:04] Although I'm friends with the Tanuki as well.

[00:57:05] She's pretty cool.

[00:57:06] Okay.

[00:57:07] Every once in a while, I'll pull up a Fred's Twitter.

[00:57:10] Like, Oh yeah, it's all, it's all raccoon stuff.

[00:57:12] Okay.

[00:57:12] That was how he became friends.

[00:57:14] Oh yeah.

[00:57:15] He followed the craziest moments on something awful at history account.

[00:57:17] And because I, you know, I was going through the new followers.

[00:57:19] I saw, I think I'm like, Oh, that's funny.

[00:57:21] That furry is using Frederick Brennan's name.

[00:57:22] And I clicked on it.

[00:57:23] And I was like 32,000 followers.

[00:57:25] Oh no, that's actually him.

[00:57:26] And I was like, wait, he's a furry.

[00:57:27] And then there's going to be like, he's the same type of weird furries to me.

[00:57:30] And I'm like, I think we could be friends.

[00:57:31] Hell yeah.

[00:57:32] And then, you know, skip forward, like, you know, a couple months later and he was his

[00:57:36] personal assistant.

[00:57:37] I'm like, well, I just lost my job.

[00:57:38] I don't have anything keeping me here.

[00:57:39] I'll give it a shot.

[00:57:40] And it turns out I'm really good at it.

[00:57:42] And yeah, it's great.

[00:57:43] Like, and again, like just that little thing, like being a furry is the closest thing to

[00:57:47] being like a part of a secret society.

[00:57:48] Like people make jokes about the furry Illuminati, but that's kind of what it's like.

[00:57:52] It's just across like every like slice of society, just people wind up like this and

[00:57:57] we all know each other.

[00:57:58] And like, it's, it's really cool.

[00:57:59] Like if I have a car problem, I can hop on the New Jersey first telegram group and just

[00:58:03] be like, yeah, my car is doing this.

[00:58:04] And I'll have like three people that are gear heads being like, you got to do this, take

[00:58:08] it here, get this.

[00:58:09] It's, it's such a wonderful resource as someone who spent a lot of their twenties very alone

[00:58:13] and isolated.

[00:58:14] Damn.

[00:58:15] Yeah.

[00:58:15] Yeah.

[00:58:16] This is the personal part here.

[00:58:18] So I can get to the fun website stuff now, but I feel like talking about that.

[00:58:21] Cause yeah, you know, it's kind of my brand is like this, this sort of sincere human, human,

[00:58:24] humanistic side of this stuff.

[00:58:26] So this is really coming from someone who is a complete outsider.

[00:58:28] Like I came up in the early days of something awful.

[00:58:32] We've talked about that before.

[00:58:33] And there was that whole furry threads get gassed on the site that drove all the furries

[00:58:39] off of something awful being a what?

[00:58:41] 18 year old shithead.

[00:58:43] I didn't think twice.

[00:58:45] I was like, yeah, fucking furries or whatever.

[00:58:47] As I've gotten older, I'm like, yeah, but all the furries I know are the nicest fucking

[00:58:53] people who will help you with your car making a weird noise or whatever it is.

[00:58:57] Yeah.

[00:58:57] So it's, it's not surprising to me, but it really is one of those things where I think

[00:59:03] society as a whole still has yet to come around.

[00:59:05] Yeah.

[00:59:05] Like, I feel like people are a lot better about it now.

[00:59:08] Like it is very cute.

[00:59:09] Like what's with these like now it's like, everyone kind of knows a furry when they go

[00:59:12] to school.

[00:59:12] It's just like a type of weird kid.

[00:59:14] Like how, like when we were kids, they would have like a beatnik in every animated sitcom,

[00:59:19] even though they hadn't been around for decades.

[00:59:20] Cause that's when they grew up.

[00:59:21] Like I feel like in a decade or two, like the animated sitcoms are going to have like a weird

[00:59:25] furry kid is like part of the standard group of like archetypes because it's just, it's

[00:59:30] a thing now.

[00:59:31] Yeah.

[00:59:31] Yeah.

[00:59:32] But also I totally get it.

[00:59:34] Cause like I was the same way and I was a fur.

[00:59:36] So like, you know, that's like, I mentioned being very isolated.

[00:59:38] That's a part of it.

[00:59:39] I was like the opposite of blade.

[00:59:40] I had like all the weaknesses and none of the strengths.

[00:59:43] I had like all the insecurity and negativity of like, yeah, it was, that's one of the reasons

[00:59:47] why I'm so big on the whole like positivity and like accepting who you are and finding

[00:59:51] meaning with, with that.

[00:59:52] Because like, yeah, it is.

[00:59:53] I feel really bad, especially cause like that is the downside of all the fur is using fur

[00:59:57] affinity is like every year you'll have like a new crop of 18 year olds who are still

[01:00:01] like 4chan edgelords who will be like, you know, like trolling trans people or whatever.

[01:00:06] Cause they're still ashamed about the fact that they like have to watch people get inflated

[01:00:09] like balloons to get off or whatever.

[01:00:11] Like it's a, it's a cycle.

[01:00:12] Cause I know it was the target of a number of different brigades from something awful 4chan,

[01:00:19] and Reddit anywhere that where there are teenager assholes, they're going to come for what they

[01:00:24] feel is like a marginalized community.

[01:00:27] And fur affinity surely fits that bill.

[01:00:30] And so, yeah, I mean, there were a number of times where they were having issues with people

[01:00:34] posting gore art and doing things like that.

[01:00:37] Like, yeah, 2017, it says here, according to the wiki fur article, a 600 account bot troll

[01:00:45] started uploading gore artwork to the front page.

[01:00:48] The accounts were created within like a two week span as a pre-planned attack.

[01:00:54] They managed to knock it out pretty quickly.

[01:00:57] It says they shut down uploads for a short period.

[01:00:59] They had five minutes of server downtime and conducted maintenance on the server the next day.

[01:01:05] So you don't truck with any bullshit for sure.

[01:01:08] Yeah.

[01:01:08] Unfortunately, you kind of have to have a procedure in place when you run this type of site.

[01:01:11] Because it would just get harassed.

[01:01:13] That was kind of a regular thing, especially in the earlier days.

[01:01:15] Like, that's one reason why it stood out.

[01:01:16] Because people kind of tapered out after a while.

[01:01:18] Sure.

[01:01:19] It was also very surreal.

[01:01:20] It's like, have you ever read or seen Scanner Darkly?

[01:01:24] The Philippi-

[01:01:25] Yes.

[01:01:25] Yeah.

[01:01:26] Like, I felt like the guy from that a lot of times.

[01:01:29] It's like, I'm with other furries and we're talking about this awful stuff that people

[01:01:32] from Something Awful are doing.

[01:01:33] And it's also like, oh, I'm also-

[01:01:35] It's like, I'm two worlds at once.

[01:01:37] And it's like, ugh.

[01:01:38] My scramble suit was malfunctioning.

[01:01:40] Like, wait, am I supposed to be the panda or the human right now?

[01:01:43] It was such a weird space to exist in.

[01:01:45] I could tell you, Jay, it's probably better than being the poster two worlds.

[01:01:50] Oh, yes.

[01:01:52] As soon as I said that, I was like, oh, no, I should not be making that comparison.

[01:01:55] I am not that.

[01:01:57] See, I was thinking the shitty game, but you guys-

[01:02:00] Apparently, he's doing a lot better now.

[01:02:01] I'm glad.

[01:02:04] So for those who are not following Jay, those who don't know the reference, can you guys

[01:02:08] both break down two worlds for us?

[01:02:11] Jay, you get the first shot.

[01:02:14] Okay, yeah.

[01:02:15] So I'm not super fresh on this, but two worlds was this kind of like, he was this very sort

[01:02:19] of oblivious guy who thought of himself as like an anime protagonist.

[01:02:22] Oh, no.

[01:02:23] Just kind of being like a dipshit.

[01:02:24] He called himself two worlds because he was like, I exist in two worlds.

[01:02:27] A world of light and a world of darkness.

[01:02:29] Oh, no.

[01:02:29] Stuff like that.

[01:02:30] Like a guy who monologues like Sephiroth when he's talking about how caring a printer for

[01:02:36] someone didn't result in a date.

[01:02:37] That type of guy.

[01:02:38] And he was just a very active presence on there.

[01:02:42] And his posting career kind of came to an inglorious end because there was an attempt

[01:02:46] at doing what was called Goon Love is the Best Love.

[01:02:49] Basically, it's like, hey, why don't we try dating each other?

[01:02:51] Oh, boy.

[01:02:52] People went on dates with him and there were some very awkward write-ups about just like

[01:02:55] what a weirdo he was.

[01:02:56] And, you know, just one of those things where it's like, I'm very glad I'm not that person.

[01:03:00] But also at the same time, it's like, man, I wish someone was helping them.

[01:03:03] So I have a really bizarre two world story.

[01:03:07] Okay.

[01:03:08] He showed up in like the people you may know on my Facebook a few times.

[01:03:13] Oh, no.

[01:03:14] And our mutual was a local musician here.

[01:03:19] I won't say her name.

[01:03:20] Yeah, please don't put him on blast.

[01:03:21] But I was like, that's really weird.

[01:03:25] Because his real name is like C*** or something.

[01:03:28] I can't remember.

[01:03:29] But I remember seeing this musician at a show and being like, how do you know such and such?

[01:03:36] And I was like, oh, I went to college with them or something like that.

[01:03:39] Like there was some and, you know, he's just kind of a he's just like a really like kind of odd, like harmless guy.

[01:03:47] And, you know, I kind of me.

[01:03:48] I don't really remember because this is like 10 years ago.

[01:03:51] But there was an audio file that went around about 10 years ago where Two Worlds was being like very emotional.

[01:04:00] I think like very, very upset.

[01:04:02] And he's talking to a young woman.

[01:04:04] And I realized when I heard this that the young woman that was like trying to like kind of like metaphorically talk him off the ledge was this musician that I knew.

[01:04:14] And I was like, this is weird.

[01:04:16] This is like a person who I do not consider to be very online or anything like that.

[01:04:21] Yeah.

[01:04:21] And involved with like what would have been like a something awful wall cow and like 2008 or 2009.

[01:04:29] Yeah.

[01:04:29] I have to tie into the main theme of very funny version of that when you're a furry is like following someone.

[01:04:34] Because like their art being like, wait, that guy who draws that cute dog in outer space used to be a Fyad poster.

[01:04:39] Oh, yeah.

[01:04:40] How many furries used to be goods is very fun.

[01:04:44] So I was reading through this article about the history of Fur Affinity.

[01:04:48] Apparently one of the users wound up on the Tyra Banks show.

[01:04:53] Oh, my gosh.

[01:04:53] This story is fantastic.

[01:04:54] And I have a fun personal hook for it.

[01:04:56] I'm so glad you brought it up.

[01:04:57] Yeah.

[01:04:57] Because this was in 2009.

[01:04:59] So there's this daytime talk show called Tyra that was hosted by Tyra Banks.

[01:05:03] And one of the episodes was about couples that have weird sex.

[01:05:07] It opens and it's like three couples sitting on beds in pajamas.

[01:05:10] And she's like talking to them and she's like, and one of these people like to have sex in animal costumes.

[01:05:15] And it's about like, and they talk to them and it's like a furry couple and they talk about like being fursuiters and stuff.

[01:05:20] And like, it's obviously daytime TV and they're trying to be salacious and provocative.

[01:05:24] But I feel like it was pretty, like they did a good job representing themselves.

[01:05:27] I thought it was fine.

[01:05:28] But the people of Fur Affinity fucking hated this woman for doing it because this was still like during the like furries have to be very secretive.

[01:05:35] Yeah.

[01:05:35] Like act like we're like this friendly.

[01:05:37] Like, like this was when, when Uncle Kage who like has been described as the David Miscavige of the furries.

[01:05:44] That was when he was the chairman of Anthrocony.

[01:05:48] Yeah.

[01:05:48] He's very much the like, there's nothing wrong here.

[01:05:51] We're just a fun group of people who like cartoon animals, you know, like that type of thing.

[01:05:55] Very obvious.

[01:05:55] He just lines to people's faces.

[01:05:56] Like he's one of those dudes that's like 60 and still won't openly say that he's gay.

[01:06:01] Like, you know, just that type of dude.

[01:06:03] Yeah.

[01:06:03] The never going to get out of the closet type of dude.

[01:06:05] But yeah.

[01:06:06] And this was very much the time like you're making us look bad.

[01:06:09] You're dishonoring the furry name.

[01:06:10] And so like people flooded her page with hate and stuff.

[01:06:13] And eventually she got banned from Fur Affinity because they said that for being on the show.

[01:06:17] And then eventually people like she didn't break any rules by doing that.

[01:06:19] So they rescinded it.

[01:06:20] And then later on, like in a furry convention, she wore a t-shirt referencing it.

[01:06:24] And they were like, this is a harassment.

[01:06:27] This violates the terms of the site.

[01:06:29] So we're going to ban her.

[01:06:30] So it was just like a bullshit.

[01:06:31] Like we wanted to ban her.

[01:06:33] So now we have an excuse type thing.

[01:06:34] It was just handled very poorly.

[01:06:36] And like I said, like I don't want to trash talk Dragon here because he just died.

[01:06:39] He's very fondly remembered.

[01:06:40] And he did a lot of good stuff.

[01:06:41] We're going to talk more about that when we finish up.

[01:06:42] I'm sure.

[01:06:43] But yeah, not everything was perfect.

[01:06:44] That was a great example of that was like people could dogpile.

[01:06:46] People had cliques.

[01:06:47] People had biases.

[01:06:48] And also there's this sort of thing as like as the face of the community almost.

[01:06:52] Like you had to sort of uphold.

[01:06:54] Thankfully, they mellowed out over the years.

[01:06:56] But yeah, that was just a really embarrassing time for us.

[01:06:57] And I actually got to talk to Chufox once.

[01:06:59] Okay.

[01:07:00] Yeah.

[01:07:00] Chufox was the lady.

[01:07:01] Yeah.

[01:07:02] She was the lady.

[01:07:03] And that was kind of the interesting thing about too is it was like a furry couple where

[01:07:05] the woman was kind of like, you know, especially because back then, you know, the 2000s

[01:07:08] was still like there are no girls on the internet era.

[01:07:11] And at that time, furry was a lot better about that.

[01:07:13] A lot of people, like even in my like weird furry communities, people were just

[01:07:16] open and be like, yeah, I'm a woman who's into this thing too.

[01:07:18] And people were like, cool.

[01:07:20] You know, but yeah, that was a part of it.

[01:07:23] And I actually, I used to have a furry interview podcast and I didn't get to release it and the

[01:07:27] files are lost, but I talked to her once.

[01:07:28] And it was really interesting to hear her talk about like how like how dispiriting it was

[01:07:32] to, because especially because as furries, we've received so much harassment ourselves

[01:07:36] to be receiving on it from your own kind.

[01:07:39] And that's a dramatic way of putting it.

[01:07:40] Like your peers ostracizing you hits much harder.

[01:07:43] And it's just like a very alienating experience.

[01:07:45] And it's just not a proud moment for anyone involved in that.

[01:07:48] Well, yeah, it's a really odd vertical of a subculture to be put on the grand stage like

[01:07:57] that.

[01:07:58] And particularly when you're saying like a point in time where like furries don't really have

[01:08:03] like the best reputation.

[01:08:04] It's something that people are kind of struggling to wrap their head around.

[01:08:09] And there's misinformation.

[01:08:10] There's misunderstandings of certain things.

[01:08:12] Like I have a friend in high school who ended up being a furry and he ended up being a very

[01:08:19] weird furry.

[01:08:20] I remember he spent some ridiculous amount of money at a local fair.

[01:08:25] I think it was Valley of Flowers to win a giant stuffed dragon.

[01:08:31] Was it at least like a Rasta dragon or something?

[01:08:33] I don't really remember, but I do remember going over to his house one time.

[01:08:38] I'm going to be really mean.

[01:08:39] That sounds very on brand for a dragon furry.

[01:08:41] I don't know the first stereotypes, but maybe this will close the loop.

[01:08:46] But I went over to his house one time and he showed he was very excited to show me this

[01:08:50] giant.

[01:08:51] I mean, this thing was probably like three or four feet tall.

[01:08:53] He must have spent a ridiculous amount of money trying to win it.

[01:08:56] He was showing me how he was going to modify the crotch of it so he could he could fuck it.

[01:09:04] And I was like, yeah, this is I felt like my brain was the gif of Abe Simpson walking to

[01:09:10] the cat house.

[01:09:11] Yeah.

[01:09:11] And seeing Bart and just be like, well, I don't know if I really want to be a part of

[01:09:16] this conversation anymore.

[01:09:18] It's one of the reasons why I like to bring up the two Fox stories, because as much as I am

[01:09:22] a shooter for furries as a whole, like, yeah, there are absolutely some awful people involved.

[01:09:27] And we are not above that.

[01:09:28] Like, furries are not like some saintly group of victims.

[01:09:30] Like, we are people, too.

[01:09:31] Right.

[01:09:32] And people can be gross and mean to each other.

[01:09:34] And, you know, it's why I try and make sure a point of that as well.

[01:09:37] We are not above or outside of that.

[01:09:39] We're, you know, we're people just like everyone else.

[01:09:41] We just pretend we're something.

[01:09:42] They were messy bitches who love drama.

[01:09:44] No, I get it.

[01:09:45] Literally be messy bitches.

[01:09:47] So the other one, the other event that I thought was interesting regarding Fur a Fit

[01:09:50] Idiot, Studio Canal, a film production company, was making a Paddington movie.

[01:09:56] It was 2016.

[01:09:58] The first Paddington movie came out.

[01:10:00] And Studio Canal reached out to Dragoneer and said, hey, remove all references to Paddington

[01:10:06] from your website, which was all artwork, you know, adult or otherwise.

[01:10:12] Drawings of characters wearing clothes similar.

[01:10:16] Drawings in which the word Paddington was used but was otherwise unrelated to the character.

[01:10:22] And photographs of real people standing in front of promotional posters for the Paddington film.

[01:10:29] Yeah, that's why I'm first known as a panda.

[01:10:31] I used to be a Paddington at Amy Changes.

[01:10:35] And so Dragoneer published in a journal a message from Paddington and Company that explained

[01:10:40] that because of a portion of the Paddington-related images was pornographic in nature, which they

[01:10:47] believed violated fair dealing, they sent DMCA notices regarding all Paddington images,

[01:10:52] stating, quote,

[01:11:13] He stated plans that they were going to work with Paddington and Company to come up with a solution.

[01:11:18] And still, like, it's for, what are you doing?

[01:11:21] That's very funny because, like, a year later, Zootopia was actively, like, telling stories, yeah, come to the premiere.

[01:11:27] Yeah.

[01:11:28] Well, one company knows their audience and the other one does not, I think, is the ridiculous.

[01:11:33] Because, yeah, you're going to make a movie called Zootopia about animals that are hot?

[01:11:38] What the?

[01:11:38] And you're going to tell them no?

[01:11:40] What?

[01:11:40] I feel like there wasn't a lot of demand for Paddington.

[01:11:42] He's not really, like, he doesn't have a lot of sexual energy.

[01:11:45] He's just, like, a nice guy.

[01:11:46] He's a frumpy dude who likes marmalade.

[01:11:48] What do you, you know, like, which I guess is some people's thing.

[01:11:50] I mean, I'm not going to, you know, downplay that, but, you know, it doesn't do it for me.

[01:11:55] Yeah, and that is weird because, like, companies don't usually do that.

[01:11:58] Like, that's a weird, this is the only time I'm ever going to talk about some, like, back in the, like, on F-Chan,

[01:12:02] which was, like, the furry, like, art-chan that they had in the 2000s.

[01:12:05] Like, Bill Watterson, the owner of Calvin and Hobbes, had filed, like, a do not post for artwork of Hobbes.

[01:12:11] So, like, you couldn't post sexy artwork of the tiger from Calvin and Hobbes.

[01:12:15] The creator specifically was, like, no, no porn.

[01:12:17] Okay.

[01:12:19] That totally tracks with everything we know about Bill Watterson.

[01:12:22] That's pretty great.

[01:12:23] Honestly, I understand, but that's very funny, the idea of Bill Watterson writing an angry email to this, like, furry art-chan.

[01:12:29] You do not want to fuck the tiger, I swear.

[01:12:32] Hobbes would never do that.

[01:12:35] It's out of character.

[01:12:37] Hobbes is straight.

[01:12:38] Oh, God.

[01:12:40] No, of course not.

[01:12:41] I don't know anything important about it.

[01:12:44] Hobbes is asexual.

[01:12:47] Now I'm imagining Hobbes as one of those, like, anti-goon squad minions.

[01:12:50] Yes.

[01:12:50] Just, like, a buff type.

[01:12:52] Never goon on the shirt.

[01:12:54] He's pumping iron.

[01:12:56] Calvin's like, we don't hang out anymore.

[01:12:58] And they shut the fuck up, beta.

[01:13:00] I don't know what the fuck that was about.

[01:13:04] But, yeah, that was 2016.

[01:13:06] The Paddington bit.

[01:13:08] And, like, oh, geez.

[01:13:09] I guess, you know, they're, again, Fur Affinity, this is the known quantity.

[01:13:15] Like, I guess when you think about, where's the website you go to talk about movies?

[01:13:19] Well, obviously I would say Letterboxd, but most people would say IMDb, right?

[01:13:23] Well, where do you go when you want to talk about furries?

[01:13:25] And the first thing that comes to most people's minds who have been on the internet for a while is Fur Affinity.

[01:13:30] No joke, when Dragoneer died, I had non-furry friends text me being like, oh, I heard Dragoneer died.

[01:13:35] Yeah.

[01:13:36] Like, yeah.

[01:13:36] It is very much like a tough...

[01:13:38] And, like, if I listen to podcasts or watch YouTube, it's a thing people do bits.

[01:13:41] Like, what character gets the most results if you search for it on Fur Affinity or something?

[01:13:45] Like, it is, as a thing that exists, it is just, like, a nice touchstone for people to have, even as non-furries.

[01:13:51] It's just like, yeah, that's where the furries exist, you know?

[01:13:53] I think that's kind of how you've made it as a subculture.

[01:13:56] There's, like, one place where people know where to find you.

[01:13:59] Yeah, and the fact that it's noteworthy when we get, like, harassed instead of it being just sort of, like, the constant background radiation of existing.

[01:14:05] Yeah.

[01:14:05] And also, I guess, what we were talking about, this may be pulled up, I was curious.

[01:14:09] Right now on Fur Affinity, at this very moment, there are 15,059 registered users and 57,650 other users.

[01:14:18] There were 74,000 total online at this very moment on Fur Affinity.

[01:14:21] Yeah.

[01:14:21] On Something Awful, there are 3,221 logged in.

[01:14:25] There are, like, way more furries on there right now, just to give an example of how active that is.

[01:14:29] Yeah, the furries won, I think, is the way you would say that.

[01:14:34] That's true.

[01:14:34] Yeah, he shit, Fragmaster.

[01:14:37] Oh, yeah, because it was.

[01:14:38] Oh, God, yeah.

[01:14:39] I'm sure on that hard drive, there's probably a lot of not very kind image macros about furries, I'm sure.

[01:14:50] Oh, and it's probably a recording of Fragmaster going,

[01:14:52] Give the furries off the web.

[01:14:54] Because he had a real.

[01:14:55] Can you get the furries off the website?

[01:14:57] Or I'm going to have to do a key to them.

[01:15:01] It's a pretty good Fragmaster.

[01:15:02] Fragmaster.

[01:15:04] So there was a buyout, right?

[01:15:06] The buyout was really weird because it got bought out by the company that owns, like, IMVU,

[01:15:11] which I only know about because, like, if you've ever been at the checkout line at the grocery store

[01:15:16] and they have that wall of gift cards and there's one where it's, like, a creepy 3D, like,

[01:15:20] looks like a teenager in makeup, like, staring at you with those dead doll eyes.

[01:15:25] Yes.

[01:15:25] That's IMVU.

[01:15:27] And it's, like, a 3D chat program that mostly, like, teenagers use.

[01:15:31] And for some reason they bought this as part of their portfolio.

[01:15:34] They wound up, Dragon Year was having money problems.

[01:15:36] And as much as he loved furf and he had to sell it, basically.

[01:15:40] So he sold it to them.

[01:15:41] And it was weird because, yeah, like, for the most part, they learned to keep their hands off.

[01:15:45] But at first they were like, oh, we're going to try some new ads.

[01:15:48] And everyone completely backed out.

[01:15:50] They tried to make changes.

[01:15:51] And eventually they learned, like, every time I could change, people freak out and we lose money.

[01:15:54] So we're just going to let them keep doing what they were doing.

[01:15:56] And, yeah, and eventually he bought it back a couple years ago because I guess the company who owned them was having money troubles.

[01:16:02] But, yeah, that was really weird also in terms of, like, success being like, yeah, the main furrier site is owned by, like, a major multinational corporation.

[01:16:10] That's, that was, it's almost like our version of Elon buying Twitter.

[01:16:14] Yeah.

[01:16:14] I think about it.

[01:16:15] That's kind of the analogy I was going to draw.

[01:16:18] Because, yeah, it's like, here comes the big money.

[01:16:21] But the big money was this Gaia Online knockoff?

[01:16:24] Like a 3D Gaia Online knockoff.

[01:16:27] Like, imagine the lobby for an MMO and it's just the lobby.

[01:16:30] Like, you dress up a little 3D characters and talk to each other.

[01:16:33] Oh, man.

[01:16:34] Like the type of place that people would have trolled in the 2000s, like Habbo Hotel style.

[01:16:38] Which they're bringing back.

[01:16:39] I've heard this.

[01:16:40] They're bringing back a lot of retro.

[01:16:41] Yeah, I've heard this.

[01:16:42] The pool's not closed.

[01:16:43] The pool is no longer closed.

[01:16:44] That's right.

[01:16:47] Pool's back open because of AIDS.

[01:16:49] AIDS is coming back in the big way, folks.

[01:16:52] Pool open because of prep.

[01:16:53] Yeah.

[01:16:56] God damn.

[01:16:56] That was a good one, Jay.

[01:16:58] I still can be edgy sometimes.

[01:17:00] Oh, just.

[01:17:01] Yeah, that's so weird.

[01:17:02] Yeah.

[01:17:03] And, like, I'm glad you mentioned that, too.

[01:17:04] Because I think it's like a fun thing about furries, too.

[01:17:06] Is, like, it's not as true as it used to be.

[01:17:08] But, like, the joke we'd always say is that furries are too weird to be commercialized.

[01:17:11] And that is one of the reasons why I think we've been pretty lucky about this.

[01:17:14] Is, yeah.

[01:17:15] Is, like, in order, like, because fur affinity is so openly sexual and weird and queer and,

[01:17:20] and, like, fetishy and everything.

[01:17:21] Like, it never really got to be commercialized in the same way.

[01:17:24] And that's one of the reasons it's kind of gotten to persevere since it largely remained,

[01:17:28] like, independently owned.

[01:17:29] And, like, I guess, like, the weird thing is, like, big stuff like that doesn't work.

[01:17:33] Like, I know it's, like, a lot of artists now, they monetize stuff more.

[01:17:36] Like, like, like, makeshift.

[01:17:37] Like, that company that makes stuffed animals for games and stuff.

[01:17:39] Yeah.

[01:17:39] Like, there are companies like that that make, like, people's OCs into stuffed animals.

[01:17:43] Or people selling blankets with their artwork on it and stuff.

[01:17:46] So, it's just, like, it's people are, more people get to do it as a full-time job.

[01:17:50] That's a part of it, too, is because this is bigger and it's a community.

[01:17:52] Like, people literally, like, owe their life, their, like, livelihoods to furifying the community.

[01:17:57] Like, there are people who are, like, yeah,

[01:17:59] I used to work, like, a day job and now I just do commissions as a thing.

[01:18:03] Like, you know, the reason why people make the joke about being, like,

[01:18:05] oh, I can always make furry perform commissions to pay the bills is partially because of Fur Affinity.

[01:18:09] That was when it was all one big marketplace like that.

[01:18:12] But that really became more of a known thing.

[01:18:14] Yeah, if you commissioned your fursona and you were willing to pay the money,

[01:18:19] that artist would pay rent that month.

[01:18:22] You know, not bad.

[01:18:23] Yeah, and that is a neat thing, too, is, like, there are people who are openly, like,

[01:18:27] yeah, I'm not a furry, but I'm an artist and I like doing commissions for them.

[01:18:30] And we're like, yeah, that's cool.

[01:18:31] We like it because furries are, like, in the professional world, like, furries are notoriously nice commissioners.

[01:18:35] Like, they pay well, they tip well, they're good to work with.

[01:18:37] Like, some of them can be unpleasant personally, but, like, as compared to, like, anime commissioners,

[01:18:42] from what I've heard, it's like, oh, yeah, furries are so nice to work with.

[01:18:44] Like, that's one of the very nice things is the fact that people are like, yeah, I'm not a furry, but I like them a lot.

[01:18:49] You know, they're very nice to me, like, personally, like that.

[01:18:53] What I find interesting about Fur Affinity is that if you're not an account holder and you just pull up the website,

[01:18:59] which is still up, as we mentioned many times in this episode,

[01:19:02] and maybe sfw.furaffinity.com, just so that you can kind of skip the porn,

[01:19:06] but it's like old Tumblr where it's just a feed of images and you just have this sense of, like, yeah,

[01:19:13] this is just an outpouring of art from people who are really passionate.

[01:19:17] And that I always applaud.

[01:19:18] I like just seeing passionate artists being out there.

[01:19:22] And so what?

[01:19:23] They're making furry art.

[01:19:23] Who gives a shit?

[01:19:24] One of the reasons, too, why people see this is because of that community.

[01:19:27] Because, like, if you post something on Twitter, it's, like, especially small artists,

[01:19:30] it's very hard to get anyone to talk to you or mention your art on Fur Affinity

[01:19:34] because it's a smaller and more tightly knit community.

[01:19:36] Like, someone will browse this category or tag every day just to see what's new.

[01:19:41] Like, you can conceivably see everything that got uploaded in your niche on Fur Affinity every day.

[01:19:46] So new artists will get a lot more engagement, people commenting on it,

[01:19:50] and they'll, like, make friends and stuff.

[01:19:52] It's, as a smaller artist, like, I used to know someone,

[01:19:55] I was like, I don't even bother posting my stuff to Twitter anymore,

[01:19:57] but I still post it to Fur Affinity because I get those interactions.

[01:20:01] That's fantastic.

[01:20:02] So, advice for the Fur Curious, I guess, would be my next question.

[01:20:08] Those of us who are not necessarily in the community but are interested,

[01:20:13] pick a tag, maybe find a show that you know of.

[01:20:17] Like, my first thought was, you know, Isabel from Animal Crossing.

[01:20:21] You know, like, find a character that you think is interesting

[01:20:24] and you want to see interesting artwork of them.

[01:20:26] Yeah, when you're not logged into Fur Affinity,

[01:20:28] you have to create an account to see Not Safe for Work stuff.

[01:20:30] Okay.

[01:20:30] So, like, if you go and you search when you're not logged in,

[01:20:33] like, you're not going to get anything too eye-searing.

[01:20:35] So, right away, like, I think that was a very smart decision.

[01:20:37] It's kind of like the word filter on something awful, too.

[01:20:40] It's like, you know, you got to kind of be your dudes if you want to see it.

[01:20:44] Yeah, gently caress that.

[01:20:47] Boom.

[01:20:48] Yeah.

[01:20:48] And so, yeah, you can go there.

[01:20:50] I'd say, like, I guess, like, and even outside of, like, a sexual thing,

[01:20:54] just, like, I think it's fun just to see people drawing, like, furry versions and stuff.

[01:20:57] Like, I'd say, what do people think J.C. Denton would be if he was a furry?

[01:21:00] And I search, and I'm like, huh, German chef.

[01:21:02] That makes sense.

[01:21:03] He's a cop.

[01:21:04] Okay.

[01:21:05] Over, like...

[01:21:05] A ball?

[01:21:06] A couple months ago, after the debate, I searched Fur Affinity for depictions of Biden

[01:21:10] and seeing a lot of, like, sleepy hound dog.

[01:21:12] Oh, that's very sweet.

[01:21:13] I love it.

[01:21:14] Yeah.

[01:21:15] That's what I see.

[01:21:16] It's like, Fur Affinity is moderated very well.

[01:21:18] Like, people get stomped out when they try and do stuff, like, hateful or provocative.

[01:21:22] So, you can look for stuff like that, and it's usually not very upsetting.

[01:21:25] There are a lot of indigenous artists on Fur Affinity.

[01:21:28] Like, you can see a lot of...

[01:21:29] Like, that's a very fun thing.

[01:21:31] Like, you can search for certain styles.

[01:21:32] There are people who do, like, music on Fur Affinity.

[01:21:34] There are people who write fiction.

[01:21:36] Not, like, smut, but, like, actual, like, genre fiction and things like that.

[01:21:40] There's crafts as well.

[01:21:41] People post their crafts on there.

[01:21:43] So, if you like to see, like, Pinterest-type stuff, like, it's really...

[01:21:45] That's a part of it, too, is, like, people who make music on the internet.

[01:21:48] It's very hard to find people listening to music.

[01:21:50] On Fur Affinity, people listen to music there.

[01:21:52] Jason just pulled up one of Kamala Harris as a hyena.

[01:21:58] That feels a little uncreative.

[01:22:00] I got it.

[01:22:01] Yeah, because she laughs?

[01:22:02] What?

[01:22:02] Yeah.

[01:22:03] I feel like that's kind of, like, from The Lion King.

[01:22:05] I feel like just, like, seeing, like, a black woman and just be like, oh, hyena.

[01:22:10] That's kind of, like, come on, man.

[01:22:12] Like, I could see that.

[01:22:14] She does laugh.

[01:22:14] You're right.

[01:22:15] I mean, that's about it.

[01:22:16] Maybe that's some of my furry baggage.

[01:22:17] I'm used to hyenas being black-coated.

[01:22:20] Although, not always negatively.

[01:22:20] That's a neat thing about furry art, too, is a lot of, like, artists of color are seeing

[01:22:24] the way that people have been making their furries or their fursonas, like, more, like, more,

[01:22:28] more, like, black-coated, more Africanized.

[01:22:31] Yeah.

[01:22:31] The way that people portray their culture and everything.

[01:22:34] Also, non-American furries.

[01:22:36] There's, like, like, Japan has its own kind of separate thing called, like, the kimono

[01:22:39] scene.

[01:22:39] But, like, the European furry scene is very different.

[01:22:42] It kind of grew out of the goth scene in the 90s there.

[01:22:44] It's more internet-focused.

[01:22:46] It's very different.

[01:22:47] Like, it's a whole universe.

[01:22:49] Like, I could do a whole history thing about it, honestly.

[01:22:51] I should do more bonus episodes about furry stuff.

[01:22:54] Yeah, I'm not seeing any J.D. Vance, thank God.

[01:22:58] Yeah, nobody.

[01:22:59] You'd probably find more sexy couch art than you would find J.D. Vance art.

[01:23:02] There's sexy Alex Vance from Half-Life.

[01:23:08] Yeah, that's the fun thing about Furfee, too, is when you search, it searches for each

[01:23:11] key word separately.

[01:23:12] So, sometimes you get fun combinations.

[01:23:14] Yes.

[01:23:14] I love it.

[01:23:15] Yeah, Vance Joestar.

[01:23:17] Someone's OC based off Joseph Joestar from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

[01:23:21] Amazing.

[01:23:22] That's a very fun one, too, is look up a franchise you're a fan of and see all the weird, like,

[01:23:27] OCs that people make.

[01:23:27] One of my favorites was someone had a character that was a Flareon, like the Pokemon, that was

[01:23:32] also a member of Nod, the people from Command & Conquer.

[01:23:35] So, it's like a little Pokemon with a robot arm wearing, like, a fascist military.

[01:23:39] Hell yeah.

[01:23:40] All right.

[01:23:43] This guy's going to grow so much Tiberium.

[01:23:45] Hey, Jason, you should put in Nick Mullen.

[01:23:47] Oh.

[01:23:49] Nothing.

[01:23:50] Zero.

[01:23:51] Oh, no.

[01:23:53] Okay.

[01:23:54] Stavros?

[01:23:56] There has to be Stavros.

[01:23:57] Oh, he is.

[01:23:58] Nothing.

[01:23:59] That's very surprising.

[01:24:00] I bet you guys spelled his name wrong.

[01:24:01] Hold on.

[01:24:01] Stavvy Baby.

[01:24:05] Nothing.

[01:24:06] That is a shame.

[01:24:07] Stav.

[01:24:07] If there is one man right now that deserves to be a furry website.

[01:24:14] A panda.

[01:24:15] Something.

[01:24:18] No, Stav would make a very cute round furry.

[01:24:21] Yes.

[01:24:21] I could definitely see him as, like, I don't know what animal he'd be, but I mean, I'm biased,

[01:24:25] obviously.

[01:24:25] I think he's a handsome dude, no matter what his size.

[01:24:27] So, good on him.

[01:24:29] He had that fucking missing tooth.

[01:24:31] Maybe not with the missing tooth.

[01:24:32] Oh, dude, I saw him do stand-up New Orleans when he had the missing tooth.

[01:24:36] It was so fucking fun.

[01:24:37] Now I'm kind of picturing him as, like, a walrus with just one tusk.

[01:24:41] Not as, like, a thought joke, but just, like, he has, like, the way he moves.

[01:24:43] I can picture it as just a very energetic, happy, like, sort of, like, a construction

[01:24:47] I can see it.

[01:24:48] Well, we'll get to work.

[01:24:52] He's Greek.

[01:24:52] You associate them with docs.

[01:24:54] So, there you go.

[01:24:54] See?

[01:24:55] Okay.

[01:24:56] See?

[01:24:56] We got something going here.

[01:24:57] Yeah.

[01:24:57] Assigned fursonas for every member.

[01:24:59] Oh, absolutely.

[01:25:00] Absolutely.

[01:25:01] Well, um.

[01:25:02] Adam Freeland's already a bug.

[01:25:04] I was going to say.

[01:25:05] Yeah, he's.

[01:25:06] And Nick Mullen is Diddy Kong from.

[01:25:11] You guys remember that, right?

[01:25:13] I do.

[01:25:14] Yeah.

[01:25:15] That is a very funny thing is monkey furries.

[01:25:17] Because monkey furries do exist.

[01:25:19] And they are kind of, like, a niche within furries.

[01:25:21] Because they're so humanoid that it's, like, a lot of people don't want to be monkeys.

[01:25:24] Because, like, you're there.

[01:25:25] So, like, I feel like being a monkey kind of takes.

[01:25:27] You got to have Moxie to be a monkey furry.

[01:25:28] I have a lot of respect for them.

[01:25:29] Yeah, because, like, you're so close anyway.

[01:25:31] What are we doing here?

[01:25:32] Yeah.

[01:25:33] Yeah.

[01:25:33] Yeah.

[01:25:34] It's like I'm friends with a donkey furry.

[01:25:36] I'm like, you know, if you could be.

[01:25:37] If you want to be an equine, you choose to be a donkey instead of a horse.

[01:25:40] Like, that shows character.

[01:25:41] I think that's cool.

[01:25:41] Maybe they just saw Shrek too many times.

[01:25:43] I don't know.

[01:25:44] But.

[01:25:46] Maybe that's why they're friends.

[01:25:47] Maybe.

[01:25:48] Maybe.

[01:25:50] All right.

[01:25:51] Jay, are you ready to see something gross that is not from Fur Affinity?

[01:25:56] All right.

[01:25:57] Yeah.

[01:25:57] I didn't check this out ahead of time.

[01:25:58] I wanted to stay on school.

[01:25:59] Okay.

[01:26:00] So, this is Shock.jpg.

[01:26:02] And now, the moment you've all been waiting for.

[01:26:06] Shock.jpg.

[01:26:09] And as many of our listeners know, this is the part of the show where we show you gross

[01:26:13] shit from around the internet.

[01:26:15] This one I found.

[01:26:16] Where else?

[01:26:18] 4chan.

[01:26:19] Oh, no.

[01:26:20] Yeah.

[01:26:21] And it, uh, the header was simply Bruce's fucking food reviews.

[01:26:26] All right.

[01:26:27] Let's do this.

[01:26:28] All right.

[01:26:28] Let's see.

[01:26:29] I love the video shop watermark, by the way.

[01:26:32] I love that.

[01:26:34] Oh, God.

[01:26:35] This lighting.

[01:26:36] This is, like, every unflattering message I've ever received on a dating app.

[01:26:43] I don't know what I was going to expect, but.

[01:26:47] And he cuts the camera too.

[01:26:51] Yeah.

[01:26:51] He had a setup.

[01:26:53] He could do, like, a Matrix slow motion.

[01:26:55] It's a 30-second video of a guy.

[01:26:58] Hey, it's Bruce's fucking food reviews.

[01:27:00] And he introduces a burger from Sonic and then proceeds to show you a video of him fucking

[01:27:05] it.

[01:27:06] I'm not even sure I liked eating the food, Sonic.

[01:27:09] I don't know if I'd want to fuck it.

[01:27:11] Yeah, that's the through line.

[01:27:13] It's Sonic.

[01:27:13] There we go.

[01:27:15] I didn't even put that together.

[01:27:17] That wasn't even a thought in my mind.

[01:27:18] But, yeah, Sonic.

[01:27:19] Okay.

[01:27:19] Yeah, because the joke I made is we should do something furry related for the thing.

[01:27:24] So that's actually very perfect.

[01:27:25] We got some Sonic points.

[01:27:26] It wasn't even.

[01:27:27] And it wasn't a chili dog.

[01:27:28] So that's good.

[01:27:30] You know, I got to give this guy some props that he didn't go for the most fuckable fast

[01:27:35] food, which is Arby's.

[01:27:37] You think?

[01:27:38] Oh, well, yeah.

[01:27:38] Okay.

[01:27:38] Because of the roast beef.

[01:27:40] Yes.

[01:27:40] Yes.

[01:27:40] Okay.

[01:27:42] I really appreciate that he let the food be the star of the action scenes.

[01:27:45] Like, you really don't really see him.

[01:27:47] It's like you had the burger on display.

[01:27:48] It takes a lot of confidence to be.

[01:27:49] He's confident enough in the content that it's like, yep.

[01:27:53] You know me.

[01:27:54] It's Bruce.

[01:27:55] Bruce, we're here to review this burger, but let's get down to business.

[01:27:58] He doesn't waste any time.

[01:27:59] It's 30 seconds long.

[01:28:00] And he's on screen for all of four of those seconds.

[01:28:03] He knows what he's doing.

[01:28:05] He gets down to business.

[01:28:06] I just have a very cursed mental image.

[01:28:09] Like, there's like this running gag in Furrier where people draw dragons fucking cars.

[01:28:13] And I'm imagining a dragon who has like a YouTube channel.

[01:28:16] He's like reviewing cars.

[01:28:17] He's like, all right, I'm going to review the new Volkswagen.

[01:28:20] Then he cuts to the car.

[01:28:23] Fucking JD Vance in the fuck out of that fucking minivan.

[01:28:27] Yeah.

[01:28:28] Fill in the minivan with a load.

[01:28:32] There's that terrible early air in that furry art that's like of like a giant horse like fucking a barn.

[01:28:40] Do you guys remember this?

[01:28:43] No, that is a legitimately funny thing is how humanizing those shock images I want to make.

[01:28:50] Because now everyone knows weird furry art.

[01:28:52] It's just like a touchstone that people have.

[01:28:54] Like, it's very funny.

[01:28:55] I spend more time talking about furry porn with non-furries than I do when I'm hanging out with furries.

[01:28:59] And it's like, it's great.

[01:29:00] No, I'm very happy with this niche as kind of like the furry day walker who is like, okay, I can do weird internet humor.

[01:29:07] I can be like cool about it.

[01:29:09] But also I can like be talk about it honestly.

[01:29:11] It's very fun.

[01:29:12] I like that I'm like the furry that people know to talk to when they need someone who can like talk on the subject.

[01:29:16] Yeah.

[01:29:16] It's an interesting niche you occupy and you wield it well.

[01:29:20] Yeah.

[01:29:21] A lot of the furry art that gets stuck in my head is not like the stuff because it's like it's so weird or so gross.

[01:29:26] But it's almost like surreal outsider art.

[01:29:29] It's like, well, Ralph Waldo Emerson or whatever the fuck his name was.

[01:29:33] We're like a furry or shit.

[01:29:34] Does this feel super weird?

[01:29:36] Like, like your old neighbor who like seems to always catch you when you're coming in and out of your car and like wants to talk.

[01:29:43] And you're like, man, I really got it.

[01:29:44] I got shit.

[01:29:45] I can't do this.

[01:29:46] I also don't want to talk to you.

[01:29:47] But also, you know, you're trying to find like, oh, I've got I got I got food spoiling inside or, you know, you just like steaks on the grill.

[01:29:56] I got to go.

[01:29:57] Yeah.

[01:29:57] But just like the I think for me, the post 9-11 furry art is a real classic space of weird shit.

[01:30:06] That's actually perfect.

[01:30:07] You brought that up because a couple of months ago we did.

[01:30:09] We did an episode recently on our feed about where I did an investigation into that mistakes in America.

[01:30:14] I found the original present 9-11 memorial image and I like the background of who made it.

[01:30:20] Oh, fantastic.

[01:30:21] So like the sincere memorial is like, yeah, it's it's like like furry art is kind of like lost.jpg all the time.

[01:30:28] Just people being very sincere about things in a way that is just like, oh, hon, this is there's a giant horse.

[01:30:36] God, when the new Animal Crossing came out and my kids were playing it and this was when they were all of like 12 and they're like, oh, yeah, I got K.K.

[01:30:47] Slider and my brain immediately flashed to a piece of furry art I'd seen.

[01:30:52] Yes, I know exactly.

[01:30:54] Lose the shorts.

[01:30:55] Yes.

[01:30:56] And I had to refrain from saying that in front of my 12 year olds.

[01:31:01] I was thinking, I was thinking about the one like the swole K.K. Slider.

[01:31:06] Yes, the buff K.K. Slider with the buff villager where it's very obviously the person who can just draw the one buff guy in short story.

[01:31:12] That's their only spanking of the different heads on him.

[01:31:16] I love this stuff so much.

[01:31:18] Yeah, I guess like in terms of like the the really funny stuff like that, like transformation fetish people are just like a very good go to.

[01:31:25] Like it's just very funny when it's like a very lovingly detailed thing of like a guy turning into a stack of pancakes.

[01:31:31] Yeah.

[01:31:32] Someone's getting off of this, but to me, this is it's just like wacky cartoon comedy for me.

[01:31:37] Like, oh, yeah, that guy did turn into a wheelchair and then get ridden off.

[01:31:41] That's funny.

[01:31:43] And like you just try not to think that someone has furiously masturbated to this.

[01:31:47] Yeah.

[01:31:47] It's like when you search for something on YouTube and the channel.

[01:31:50] Like the funniest example I said recently was I was looking up a clip from Mrs. Doubtfire and the clip from a channel called like female mask lover.

[01:31:56] And it was all clips of like people wearing female masks.

[01:31:59] Oh, no.

[01:32:00] The idea of someone getting horny to Mrs. Doubtfire is so funny.

[01:32:05] Hello.

[01:32:06] And your boner just goes.

[01:32:10] Harvey Frested's character from that would be such a good fursuit designer.

[01:32:15] All right.

[01:32:15] You want six tits on this thing?

[01:32:17] I can do that.

[01:32:17] You want eight?

[01:32:18] That's going to be hard.

[01:32:19] Anything more than that?

[01:32:20] It's going to have to be a tar and you're going to have to have your friend on all fours in the back.

[01:32:23] I'm sorry.

[01:32:24] It's the best episode.

[01:32:24] Yeah.

[01:32:26] He's the understanding brother who, you know, yeah.

[01:32:29] I'm glad you like your stuffed animal, but I don't need to know that much about it.

[01:32:34] I love the idea of Harvey Fierstein just being a wholesome furry who's just, well, he's not even a furry.

[01:32:41] He's just there to help his friend.

[01:32:42] Since his name's Fierstein, I imagine him as like a salamander, like the fire type.

[01:32:46] There you go.

[01:32:46] Just like this cute squat little lizard guy.

[01:32:48] I love it.

[01:32:49] Well, it's about that time for the show.

[01:32:50] It's called The Breath Mint.

[01:32:52] It's time for your mom's favorite part of the show.

[01:32:56] It's time for The Breath Mint.

[01:32:59] Now, Jay, you know you've been on the show before.

[01:33:02] This is the part of the show where we tell people what we've been getting into this week or recently.

[01:33:07] And you told me before recording that you were going to be talking about something pretty weird.

[01:33:13] What do you got?

[01:33:14] I'm very excited.

[01:33:15] I want to talk about this indie PC game called Kenshi.

[01:33:18] It came out a couple years ago.

[01:33:20] Yeah, K-E-N-S-H-I.

[01:33:21] It's Japanese for sword bear, but the developer is from the UK.

[01:33:26] And what playing it is, is like when I was in high school, I had a summer where I just basically every day I just played Morrowind.

[01:33:32] Like every day I'd wake up and explore this world and build characters and have fun.

[01:33:36] And I never got to really have that experience again until now.

[01:33:39] It's like Kenshi has me gaming like I'm a teenager again.

[01:33:42] Just like every day I go in this little world and my little samurai guy and I just wander.

[01:33:46] Like the thing about Kenshi is it was a game that was mostly made by like one guy for a lot of its development.

[01:33:51] It took him like 12 years to make and he just finished it a couple years ago.

[01:33:55] And it's like a big world and it's made in like an early 2000s open source graphics engine.

[01:34:01] So it feels like a 2000s PC game, even though it just came out a couple years ago.

[01:34:05] There's no narrative.

[01:34:06] There's no plot.

[01:34:07] You just pick a starting point for your character and they drop you in this world and you can just do whatever you want.

[01:34:11] Like you can like wander around and you can just like you can try it.

[01:34:15] You can do like base building.

[01:34:16] You can like recruit people and build a base and farm.

[01:34:19] You can just go on adventures.

[01:34:20] There's like little dungeons.

[01:34:22] And it's like really it's and it's it's like the type of game where your skills get better by using them.

[01:34:27] So whenever you get your ass kicked in a fight, it's not too upsetting.

[01:34:30] It's like the bandits will usually just loot you and wander on.

[01:34:33] And then like a few minutes later, your guy will stand up and start healing and you're a little strong.

[01:34:37] It's just very compelling, very deep, very crunchy, has a lot of jank to it.

[01:34:41] Like I was shocked that the developer wasn't from like the Ukraine.

[01:34:45] This is Max of Slav Jank.

[01:34:47] And in the setting is very weird because it's like post, post, post apocalypse.

[01:34:51] So you're like Mad Max with samurai and robots.

[01:34:55] It's just a really weird setting where you'll have like millennia old robot samurai.

[01:35:00] And then you'll have like a cool little bug guy with stick legs.

[01:35:02] He's walking around and then they're fighting a raptor together and they're wearing tricorner hats.

[01:35:06] It's just all over the place.

[01:35:08] It's super weird.

[01:35:09] It sounds like playing like really early PUBG in a way where you're just like, this is so janky and odd that I can't stop playing because it's like there's some mechanics at work and they're fun.

[01:35:19] Everything else is just crappy enough that like it doesn't take away.

[01:35:23] It's kind of maybe like a little broken.

[01:35:26] Some of the systems don't necessarily meld correctly.

[01:35:29] But that friction is what makes it interesting.

[01:35:32] Yeah, it's fun to break like it's a game that's very hard, although it is also like built in with mod support.

[01:35:37] So it's one of those games with tons of mods.

[01:35:39] You can completely change it.

[01:35:40] But like it is a very hard game.

[01:35:42] So it is like when you figure out a way to sort of counteract that by doing something like like the stealth in that game is very unbalanced.

[01:35:47] It's very fun to just like slowly knock out an entire base of guys one at a time.

[01:35:51] Just stuff like that.

[01:35:52] Like it really encourages you to like think creatively and do stuff.

[01:35:55] And there's all sorts of fun challenge runs online.

[01:35:57] Like I made a guy with no arms and no legs and spawned him in the middle of the desert.

[01:36:01] How long will he survive?

[01:36:04] Because yeah, like you can like it has limb based damage.

[01:36:06] You can lose your arms and legs and get like robotic prosthetics to replace them.

[01:36:09] And it's just like very complicated.

[01:36:11] You could tell it was something that people spent like a decade working on and iterating on things.

[01:36:16] Damn.

[01:36:16] It goes on sale pretty regularly.

[01:36:17] There's a sequel in development.

[01:36:19] So they're probably going to be pushing it pretty hard.

[01:36:20] So yeah, if you feel like you're the type of person like it kind of reminds me of like old RPGs like Gothic.

[01:36:25] It reminds me of like Morrowind.

[01:36:28] A little bit of Mountain Blade too.

[01:36:29] Like that sort of like free form like make your own fun type thing.

[01:36:32] Just it's a good laptop game because it's like you can pause it at any time.

[01:36:35] You toggle speeds.

[01:36:36] It's like very old menu based.

[01:36:38] So it's like it's a good it's a you don't need like twitch reflexes to play it.

[01:36:41] It's more about like thinking creatively and coming up with a little narrative.

[01:36:44] Yeah, because I've heard it compared to like Dwarf Fortress in that way where the narrative emerges from the gameplay.

[01:36:50] Yeah, it's very fun.

[01:36:51] Like the thing I'm doing now is I'm playing as a robot character.

[01:36:55] And my thing is that he's like he likes humans but he doesn't really understand them.

[01:36:57] He's trying to kind of like start a little human colony but they keep starving.

[01:37:01] It's one of those games you have to feed people.

[01:37:02] It's getting that loop of having enough food to keep a colony going is pretty hard at Tuck.

[01:37:06] So he's like humans are weird.

[01:37:08] Anyways, let me get some more.

[01:37:09] Like that tweet about feeding stray cats to vulture is just like I'm just throwing humans at the starving.

[01:37:17] Yeah, I think it's a PC game.

[01:37:19] But if they had a console thing, that'd be pretty pretty neat.

[01:37:21] Yeah, it is a steam and gog.

[01:37:24] Those are the two places you can find it.

[01:37:25] Yes, it's a crunchy ass PC game.

[01:37:27] Like it's very.

[01:37:28] Yeah, I can't talk enough sugar about it.

[01:37:31] If you want to hear me talk more about more, I guested on the ain't shit show doing a whole episode about Kenshi a couple weeks ago.

[01:37:35] So you can look right on.

[01:37:36] So Brian, what do you got for this week's breath mint?

[01:37:40] I got a couple things.

[01:37:42] I think I'll go the funner one, which is my girlfriend and I finally got around to watching Abigail.

[01:37:49] Oh, I have not seen this yet.

[01:37:51] It is a movie I wish I would have seen in theaters.

[01:37:55] I imagine it would have been a hoot with a live audience because it is from front to back.

[01:38:01] Dedically, I think one of the most enjoyable films I have seen in a long time.

[01:38:05] Okay.

[01:38:05] And it's got a small cast.

[01:38:07] I don't even think it's I don't even think it's 10 people.

[01:38:11] There's no wasted dialogue.

[01:38:14] Every like is a tight screenplay.

[01:38:17] It's executed really well.

[01:38:18] It's also Agnes Cloud's last role.

[01:38:22] He's not in as long as I would hope, but he's great.

[01:38:28] Yeah, I don't want to give away too much.

[01:38:30] It's basically a heist movie.

[01:38:32] Sadly, the trailers give away the big spoilers.

[01:38:34] Yeah.

[01:38:35] But it is a heist movie that turns the concept on its head rather quickly.

[01:38:41] And there's lots of fun characters.

[01:38:44] It feels like the sort of movie that if you had given it to a Zack Snyder, it would have been the worst fucking thing in the world.

[01:38:51] Thankfully, the people that directed it have a little bit more tact.

[01:38:55] It's just a ton of fun.

[01:38:58] I can't recommend it enough.

[01:39:29] I think it's a lot of fun.

[01:39:30] It's a lot of fun.

[01:39:30] It's a lot of fun.

[01:39:31] It's a lot of fun.

[01:39:31] There's more hits than misses.

[01:39:33] Let's put it that way.

[01:39:34] Yeah, I'm not a big horror person.

[01:39:35] I will fully admit it.

[01:39:36] I've also been out of movies recently.

[01:39:38] But yeah, I don't want to yuck anyone's on.

[01:39:39] I like some of the shorts on them.

[01:39:41] Well, I'm very hyped about Abigail because, you know, I love a quirky movie with a good hook.

[01:39:47] And this one definitely has that.

[01:39:49] The little girl they got to play, Abigail, just fucking rules.

[01:39:53] Just amazing.

[01:39:54] Alicia Weir, it says.

[01:39:56] Yeah.

[01:39:56] Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's more unusual when a child actor isn't good these days.

[01:40:00] Like, kid actors are really good now.

[01:40:02] Yeah, that's fair.

[01:40:04] Like, what if we just stopped traumatizing them so much?

[01:40:07] What if we just stopped the kids and let them be just actors?

[01:40:11] Yeah.

[01:40:12] Well, when they're not going through all the pep pills, they're doing great.

[01:40:14] We're not putting them in a closet with a sweaty man child who we are basing our whole entire network around his ideas.

[01:40:23] As a 90s kid growing up in Florida, Nickelodeon had this weird mystique to it.

[01:40:28] Because, like, I'd been to Nickelodeon's videos because, you know, for some reason they were day trip.

[01:40:31] And it was kind of like, you know, just it was like a part of our day-to-day culture and lives in a way.

[01:40:36] Like, I get why people have such an interest in it.

[01:40:38] And I'm glad it's finally being brought to light.

[01:40:40] Because, yeah, the whole reason why they opened those Universal Studios in Florida was because they were trying to get away from the unions in Hollywood.

[01:40:46] They were trying to establish, like, basically what Georgia wound up being.

[01:40:49] They tried to do that in Florida in the 90s.

[01:40:50] That's why Disney and Universal had their studios there.

[01:40:53] And it's like, yeah, that's what happens when you, like, all this stuff, like, about the kids getting, like, injured on, like, Legend of the Hidden Temple and stuff.

[01:41:00] Just there was so much negligence because it was a new field and people were just grabbing at money.

[01:41:04] I don't like that.

[01:41:05] But, so, Abigail, there's Giancarlo Esposito is in the movie.

[01:41:11] Oh, hell yeah.

[01:41:12] He's in it for all of five minutes.

[01:41:14] Damn it.

[01:41:14] But what, five minutes?

[01:41:16] That's all they could afford.

[01:41:17] That's all they could get in for is one day.

[01:41:19] He sets the stage and he appears later on.

[01:41:22] And it's fun.

[01:41:23] He was going to be in the whole movie, but they had five minutes.

[01:41:25] Like, fuck, we're good, man.

[01:41:27] We got what we need.

[01:41:28] Thanks.

[01:41:28] Have a good one, man.

[01:41:29] Go to a Comic-Con.

[01:41:31] Yeah.

[01:41:31] Sign some shit.

[01:41:32] Hold a banana to someone's head.

[01:41:34] Yeah.

[01:41:34] We'll hold down the fort.

[01:41:35] I guess the less fun thing, I guess, but unique thing that I had going on.

[01:41:40] I'll go through this briefly because I did document the memorial walk from Normandy High School where Mike Brown graduated to Canfield Apartments where he was murdered by former, now former Ferguson police officer, Darren Wilson.

[01:41:59] Yeah.

[01:42:29] It was a perfectly cool day.

[01:42:30] This time of year in St. Louis, you're lucky if it's like 90 degrees.

[01:42:35] That's a cool day this time of year, but it was like, I don't know, a high of 80, you know, for a five mile walk through some really interesting neighborhoods in St. Louis.

[01:42:45] Not as brutal as it's been in the past.

[01:42:48] I guess what I took from it was that not enough has changed on the wire scope as far as police brutality and institutional racism and all of those fun words.

[01:43:01] But what is a value is that through this hardship, through all the tear gas, all the bullshit, there is a community of individuals that is pretty tight.

[01:43:17] And kind of special.

[01:43:19] It's a weird thing to be like, oh, yeah, is this so great?

[01:43:22] We're all trauma bonded together.

[01:43:24] That was a thing after covering Ferguson that was tough, was trying to deal with people that didn't really know what was actually going on.

[01:43:35] That like thought that all Ferguson was just like a crater because of the riots was like, no, they burned down like a quick trip and like an O'Reilly's auto parts.

[01:43:46] Right.

[01:43:46] A beauty store like it's it's a dozen structures over a year, which considering how much law enforcement agitated and terrorized people, I feel like that's a pretty low amount of structures to be burned down.

[01:44:03] And really, if we're going to get nitpicky, probably half of those structures were burned down by law enforcement anyways.

[01:44:11] So, yeah.

[01:44:11] And it's property.

[01:44:12] It's insured.

[01:44:13] Like that's what businesses do.

[01:44:15] Like nobody was really hurt from that.

[01:44:16] It was not a protest.

[01:44:18] Like obviously people could have been.

[01:44:19] But yeah.

[01:44:20] And your pictures were very good.

[01:44:22] Like it was a real treat to get to see them throughout the day on Twitter and just like seeing how many people were there, the art they had out.

[01:44:28] Just it was very it was genuinely very moving to see how many people were still out there and still keeping it going.

[01:44:33] Yeah, it's you know, thank you.

[01:44:35] I was a little rusty, but I felt like I got a couple of foes I'm really proud of.

[01:44:39] Ran into some media people I hadn't seen in a while.

[01:44:42] And, you know, I guess like like a personal professional note is weird to be like, yeah, I was one of the first photographers to cover this story.

[01:44:51] And no one like reached out to me for an interview or for like licensing.

[01:44:56] But like I ran into a guy a couple of weeks ago photographing a concert who also covered Ferguson.

[01:45:03] But he is a much more tenacious self marketer.

[01:45:07] And I asked him if he was going to be down for the 10th anniversary.

[01:45:10] He's like probably not like I'm doing something with the kids.

[01:45:14] But he's like, but all my stuff's going to be in like all these documentaries and all these articles and all this shit on CBS.

[01:45:20] And I'm like, cool.

[01:45:21] I'm trying to figure out how I'm like going to pay the power bill this month.

[01:45:24] Like, oh, that's like the other weird thing of like for me is like I got all this trauma and all of these like bad feelings that kind of linger from time to time and swell up.

[01:45:37] But I don't have the paycheck.

[01:45:39] I was just saying and for what?

[01:45:40] Yeah.

[01:45:40] Yeah.

[01:45:41] Like I did like it made my life really hard for a number of years because I would like have to like work what I would call a civilian job.

[01:45:50] And then people would find out that like I covered Ferguson.

[01:45:53] And boy, I had like worked these oddly conservative jobs because that's the only work I could get because my skill set was so skewed to photography and stuff like that.

[01:46:03] And I remember working with one guy who I'm fairly certain went on to kill his wife.

[01:46:08] Oh, Jesus.

[01:46:09] If he hasn't if he if he hasn't yet, it's an it's every office has one.

[01:46:14] Every office has a wife.

[01:46:16] That is.

[01:46:17] Yeah.

[01:46:18] Well, that is going to be murdered by someone in that.

[01:46:21] Boy, I just had like really eat my fucking lumps for having done that.

[01:46:26] Talking with people and reminiscing about good times and bad times was kind of something I realized I had been missing in my life for a while.

[01:46:38] And I kind of left there.

[01:46:40] You know, there's there's a certain heaviness, you know, being at Canfield and all that.

[01:46:44] But and being with the family.

[01:46:47] But.

[01:46:48] Again, like we're all kind of trauma.

[01:46:50] Like we all fucking ate tear gas.

[01:46:52] We all fucking got mace.

[01:46:54] We all watched the cops lie.

[01:46:55] And that's like something like people can't really take that unity of we saw a truth that the world doesn't understand.

[01:47:04] And we've all been struggling to try to get out there.

[01:47:07] And sometimes it resonates.

[01:47:09] People listen.

[01:47:10] It travels on the wind.

[01:47:11] And sometimes it just kind of stays with us.

[01:47:14] Can I tell a little personal story?

[01:47:15] I think ties into that really.

[01:47:16] Yeah, we'll go for it.

[01:47:17] I went to high school at Stanton College Preparatory School, which was like the number one rated high school in America when I when I applied to it.

[01:47:23] Like it was super prestigious.

[01:47:25] I flunked out of it.

[01:47:26] I had a lot of trouble because I didn't know I was autistic at the time.

[01:47:29] I actually just learned that last year.

[01:47:30] And so basically I'm in my mid-20s and I'm working at a Target and I'm doing the shelves.

[01:47:36] And a guy like is walking by and he doubles back.

[01:47:38] He turns around.

[01:47:39] He goes, oh, hey, Jay, is that you?

[01:47:41] And I'm like, me?

[01:47:42] He's like, yeah, we went to Stanton together.

[01:47:43] And I'm talking.

[01:47:44] He recognized me.

[01:47:44] We're talking.

[01:47:45] And he goes, oh, I mean, he's like, why do you work here?

[01:47:48] Basically.

[01:47:49] And he's like, oh, I'm an engineer for Exxon Mobile now.

[01:47:52] And he's talking about the work he does and like how much he gets paid and everything.

[01:47:55] And like later on that day, I was really depressed at first because I was thinking about like how all these people I worked with like went on to have these jobs.

[01:48:00] These really successful lives.

[01:48:01] And I didn't.

[01:48:02] But I thought more.

[01:48:03] And I was like, I wouldn't want to work for Exxon Mobile, though.

[01:48:06] They fucking suck.

[01:48:07] And they're destroying the planet.

[01:48:08] Like and like they're like they're a horrible company.

[01:48:11] And I was like the type like if I hadn't lived the life I did to get me there, I probably would have wound up like that.

[01:48:17] And my attitude is like the things you go through change you.

[01:48:19] And even if like they don't material benefit you, like you grow from them.

[01:48:22] And like I've never gotten to go through the things you did because I'm autistic.

[01:48:27] So like I get overwhelmed.

[01:48:28] Like if I went to a protest, I'd probably just start crying and fall down or something.

[01:48:31] Like I wouldn't be much use for anyone.

[01:48:33] Oh, those people showed up.

[01:48:34] Don't worry.

[01:48:37] Yeah, they have they have the rickshaws for them.

[01:48:44] Although I am definitely a minority.

[01:48:46] I know a lot of furries who've done a lot of political activism over the years and are very good at it.

[01:48:49] And it's always very cool when you see people in fursuits at protests.

[01:48:52] Yeah, I was going to say like a lot of online hack.

[01:48:54] Yeah, I always feel like that's the person that brought the fertilizer bomb.

[01:49:00] Well, I was thinking like, you know, the ones who are, you know, hacking.

[01:49:05] Yeah, the gay furry hackers that keep as they call themselves that keep blowing stuff up.

[01:49:10] Yeah, I know a lot of activists.

[01:49:12] Speaking of furry hackers, like what you mentioned about your jobs.

[01:49:14] One thing I really love about working for Fred is this is one job I can't get fired from no matter what I post.

[01:49:18] Fair enough.

[01:49:19] Yeah, because if anyone complains here about it, he's just going to like post artwork of fat raccoons at them.

[01:49:25] Yeah, like you're like living the you're like your own niches version of like Nick Mullins.

[01:49:31] Like what can I get fired from?

[01:49:33] I don't have the Patreon doing it, but I have like a friend I work for.

[01:49:36] And it's like, yeah, I'm very I'm very blessed to have this.

[01:49:39] Sincerely, I'm just it's so cool.

[01:49:41] I'm really glad to be back here.

[01:49:42] I always have fun when I come on.

[01:49:43] Fucking amen.

[01:49:44] So on a less depressing note, well, more, I guess, depending on who you are.

[01:49:50] My breath this week is my kids insist that we watch Despicable Me 4.

[01:49:55] Okay.

[01:49:57] I can tell by the awkward silence that neither of you give a shit about Despicable Me.

[01:50:03] Yeah, I've seen I've seen like half the Despicable Me movies.

[01:50:07] Yeah.

[01:50:08] So I'm more than most childless adults.

[01:50:10] I imagine.

[01:50:11] My kids are 14 now and they've been watching Despicable Me their whole lives at this point.

[01:50:19] Because those movies have been around.

[01:50:21] Kind of like kid nostalgia where it's like, wow, I can't believe I used to like this when I was six.

[01:50:26] But they still said, well, you know, we should probably watch it.

[01:50:28] And here's the thing about Despicable Me.

[01:50:31] Here's the thing about Illumination.

[01:50:33] Their movies aren't necessarily bad.

[01:50:36] Yeah, they're fine.

[01:50:37] They always hit this kind of middle of the road, lowest common denominator vibe.

[01:50:44] The Minions themselves becoming a boomer meme is always endlessly amusing to me.

[01:50:49] It's like this was like some French pervert who just decided that like the Minions were a thing that they should make.

[01:50:56] And, you know, it's Steve Carell is clearly phoning it in at this point.

[01:51:00] And it's fine.

[01:51:02] You know, he does the.

[01:51:04] I'm Gru.

[01:51:05] I'm doing.

[01:51:06] It's the Gru time.

[01:51:07] It's Gru.

[01:51:08] No stepbrother.

[01:51:09] Why are you stuffing?

[01:51:10] Why is she?

[01:51:12] And they bring back Russell Brand's Dr. Nefario character.

[01:51:18] But that.

[01:51:18] Oh, that's unfortunate.

[01:51:19] But he doesn't have any lines.

[01:51:20] And so it's just the character.

[01:51:23] He doesn't say anything.

[01:51:24] So that it's like, well, yeah, here's the character.

[01:51:27] But Russell Brand isn't.

[01:51:29] I've never seen the Spickle of Me movies, but I imagine I'm going to take a wild guess

[01:51:34] here.

[01:51:35] If the Russell Brand character had any lines, it would be about how vaccines are not real.

[01:51:42] And it's not really if you pay for it.

[01:51:44] No.

[01:51:45] His character is like a mad scientist.

[01:51:47] Like the tech guy.

[01:51:48] I'm praying to the new type of.

[01:51:49] No.

[01:51:51] God.

[01:51:51] I have added more autism to the vaccine.

[01:51:56] That's what everyone's going to have a sonic OC.

[01:52:00] That's what makes the minions yellow is they got an overload of autism.

[01:52:04] But anyway, many such cases there.

[01:52:07] Well, they're they're polyglots.

[01:52:09] All the minions speak a mixture of different languages.

[01:52:13] In Despicable Me 4, there are a few funny running bits.

[01:52:16] It's the minions, of course, one of whom gets trapped in a vending machine.

[01:52:22] And so in the background of like three or four different scenes, there's just this minion

[01:52:27] in a vending machine being tortured by other minions.

[01:52:30] I always love shit like that.

[01:52:32] You can't make a whole movie out of it.

[01:52:34] But here's a here's a scene or two with a fun little bit.

[01:52:37] You know, Gru has a kid now his own, not the adopted daughters.

[01:52:41] So Gru Jr., who loves his mom, but hates the dad.

[01:52:46] But then, of course, because it's a kid's movie throughout the course of the movie, he

[01:52:50] learns to love the dad and all that.

[01:52:53] But the whole idea is that Gru is now on the run from a supervillain played by Will Ferrell

[01:53:01] doing the fucking Megamind voice, but with a weird accent.

[01:53:06] So it's like, oh, but it's not exactly Megamind.

[01:53:08] His name is Maxime Le Mal.

[01:53:11] Yes, that's right.

[01:53:12] Maximum bad.

[01:53:14] It's full of dumb decisions like that.

[01:53:17] But at the same time, it's a Despicable Me movie.

[01:53:20] You know what you're getting when you go in.

[01:53:22] It does what it says on the tin.

[01:53:24] There's not really anything surprising.

[01:53:26] The Ferrell music is decent.

[01:53:29] The voice acting is what it's always been.

[01:53:32] And, you know, it's a good time at the movies.

[01:53:34] Don't go in expecting Shakespeare and you're fine.

[01:53:37] And as always, the Minions outshine the rest of the cast because that's by design.

[01:53:43] But you can't make a whole movie out of that.

[01:53:45] And believe me, they've tried.

[01:53:47] It was called Minions and it was terrible.

[01:53:49] Because they glossed over where the Minions were during World War II.

[01:53:54] That's even better.

[01:53:55] They didn't gloss over it.

[01:53:56] They explicitly show that they couldn't have done it.

[01:53:59] They were frozen in ice.

[01:54:02] We have photographic proof.

[01:54:06] That's what we need.

[01:54:07] We need Grok to make that for us now.

[01:54:09] Oh, God.

[01:54:10] When I was messing around with the Microsoft AI,

[01:54:15] my favorite thing was trying to get the best image of Drake praying at Shinto Temple with Minions.

[01:54:24] And I got a couple that were good.

[01:54:27] I lost them on my Switch phones, unfortunately.

[01:54:31] Oh, no.

[01:54:31] They all get replicated to the cloud.

[01:54:33] But at least my foes of Drake eating Chinese food out of toilets at basketball games.

[01:54:39] Yes.

[01:54:39] Those survived.

[01:54:41] Those, I think, are a reason for AI to have ever existed.

[01:54:46] Granted, I want it shut down now.

[01:54:47] But just so that we could have had those.

[01:54:50] I like over a half a year before the Kendrick Lamar and Drake drama hits peak.

[01:54:59] I was already.

[01:55:00] We fucking did the big ghost episode.

[01:55:02] Just because I wanted to talk shit.

[01:55:04] About how Drake is baby soft.

[01:55:08] How he's baby soft.

[01:55:09] You know what I'm saying?

[01:55:11] My hatred of Drake.

[01:55:13] God.

[01:55:14] It goes way back.

[01:55:15] It's a deep thing.

[01:55:16] Yeah.

[01:55:17] Because you don't know this, Jay.

[01:55:19] But I worked a warehouse job where every time these guys listened to the radio I worked with,

[01:55:24] every time a song came on, I'm like, this is the worst thing I've ever heard.

[01:55:27] It was always Drake.

[01:55:29] God, yeah.

[01:55:30] I hate the shared radio experience like that at a workplace.

[01:55:33] Yeah.

[01:55:33] I mean, everything else that was getting played, it was fine.

[01:55:37] I actually found some shit I liked.

[01:55:39] But every time we'd be working, I'm like,

[01:55:40] this is like the softest shit.

[01:55:42] Like, this is like a Sarah McLachlan commercial, but if it were hip hop.

[01:55:47] And like, oh, it's Drake.

[01:55:48] This is music for us to work to, not music to cry into a pillow to.

[01:55:52] Like, come on.

[01:55:52] When you're upset when your girlfriend smiles at you kind of music.

[01:55:55] Like, Jesus.

[01:55:56] Yeah.

[01:55:57] You're right.

[01:55:58] Fuck.

[01:56:01] That is brutal.

[01:56:03] It's, but it's fair.

[01:56:07] Why is she happy?

[01:56:09] Because I don't ever make her happy.

[01:56:11] Shit.

[01:56:12] Oh, yeah.

[01:56:12] Fuck.

[01:56:13] Fuck.

[01:56:14] Well, this is the part of the show where we tell people where to find us online.

[01:56:18] Jay, since you were our guest, tell the good folks on the old internet where to find you

[01:56:22] on the web.

[01:56:24] Great.

[01:56:24] Well, I'm Jay Brandstetter, pretty much everywhere.

[01:56:26] I'm still using Twitter.

[01:56:27] I have my podcast.

[01:56:29] I'm from the internet.

[01:56:29] I co-host it with Winslow Dumaine.

[01:56:31] He's a very funny comedian.

[01:56:33] He blew up the rat hole in Chicago.

[01:56:35] So if you saw that on the news, yeah, that's the thing.

[01:56:38] He specifically asked the news not to call him.

[01:56:40] And that's what his time of card was.

[01:56:42] Perfect.

[01:56:43] A very good bit.

[01:56:44] I will admit.

[01:56:45] But, yeah.

[01:56:46] And it's very good.

[01:56:47] It's based on the Something Awful forums.

[01:56:48] And each episode, we focus on a saga.

[01:56:51] Or more recently, we're doing mini-sodes where we focus on more abstract concepts or posters.

[01:56:55] Like, we did one on Rib Kid and we talked about face blindness.

[01:56:58] Oh, damn.

[01:56:58] That was very funny.

[01:56:59] Yeah.

[01:57:00] Little things like that.

[01:57:01] But we also do more big sagas.

[01:57:03] Like, if you're a new listener, I'd say our drugs episodes are definitely our best.

[01:57:07] The steroids and finazepam are both-

[01:57:08] Finazepam, I was going to say.

[01:57:10] Yeah.

[01:57:10] Did you do the juice?

[01:57:11] Yes.

[01:57:12] A lot of people say that's our best episode.

[01:57:14] So, yeah.

[01:57:15] It's a very accessible one.

[01:57:16] Also, I'm writing a book, which is fun.

[01:57:18] I haven't written fiction since high school, but I've been on a creative kick lately.

[01:57:21] So I'm finishing up the rough draft right now.

[01:57:24] It's going to be about 60,000 words.

[01:57:25] It's basically like Star Fox with war crimes, but it's like a personal story, too.

[01:57:30] It's going to be weird.

[01:57:31] I don't know if anyone's going to like it, but it feels cool to make something that I feel like only I could make.

[01:57:34] Fuck yeah, dude.

[01:57:35] You have a link tree on the Twitter, so that's a good place to find the rest of your links.

[01:57:39] Yeah, jbranstetter at Twitter, and then my link tree is on there.

[01:57:42] I have like a YouTube channel.

[01:57:43] I don't really update anymore, but I used to do video essays.

[01:57:45] I have like older podcasts.

[01:57:46] I make a bunch of stuff, and yeah, just check it out.

[01:57:49] There's fun things.

[01:57:50] And yeah, so if you're listening to this and you're curious about furry stuff or whatever, feel free to send me a message.

[01:57:55] I'm cool to talk about stuff like that.

[01:57:57] I have links to my art for some of the art.

[01:57:59] If you're curious about what my panda looks like, I'm always happy to talk about him.

[01:58:02] So, Brian.

[01:58:03] Oh, where can they find me?

[01:58:04] Yeah, please.

[01:58:05] If you want to send me death threats, or tell me what you think my fursona would be.

[01:58:10] Weasel.

[01:58:12] I don't know about that.

[01:58:13] What do you think, Jay?

[01:58:14] Hmm, gosh.

[01:58:16] When I know people, it's awkward because it's like, oh, I don't want to give them something that's not cool.

[01:58:20] But also, it's like, I don't know.

[01:58:23] I'll have to think on that.

[01:58:24] Hey, maybe that's a good excuse for me to come back another time.

[01:58:27] That's my homework.

[01:58:28] There we go.

[01:58:28] There we go.

[01:58:29] Okay.

[01:58:30] Where else can they find you?

[01:59:00] Yeah.

[01:59:03] Good media website.

[01:59:04] Loves insane.

[01:59:04] Let's go over to theartsstl.com.

[01:59:06] I got my soft colt and my oval pec photos up there.

[01:59:10] Some really good shit there from some other folks.

[01:59:13] I haven't had the time to check recently, but I know there is because, fuck, man, we got people everywhere.

[01:59:19] We got shooters out there.

[01:59:20] Yeah.

[01:59:20] We got literally, literally, and figuratively, we got shooters out there.

[01:59:24] And yeah, I think that's it.

[01:59:25] Jason, where can they tell you the go?

[01:59:28] Oh, boy.

[01:59:29] You can do that very thing on Twitter and various other places.

[01:59:33] As video crime.

[01:59:34] V-I-D-E-O-C-R-I-M-E.

[01:59:36] Most of the time, if there is a video crime, that's going to be me.

[01:59:40] With the notable exceptions of TikTok, Instagram, those two places, I am lasergooseCEO.

[01:59:48] That's laser with an S because I know how to spell.

[01:59:53] You can also find me as part of a menagerie of international weirdos on a show they like to call Submitted for the Approval of the Midnight Pals.

[02:00:03] There, I play a fictionalized version of horror author Stephen King.

[02:00:09] Yes, that's right.

[02:00:10] It's me, Stephen.

[02:00:12] And we're doing season two coming up in October.

[02:00:15] I'm very excited.

[02:00:16] We have a musical episode in season two.

[02:00:21] That's going to be at midnight-pals.simplecasts.com.

[02:00:26] If you want to contact the show for whatever reason, give us a call.

[02:00:31] 314-246-9766.

[02:00:34] Be like Jay and leave us a voicemail about what your favorite slur is, for example.

[02:00:38] If you want to shoot us an email, that's Jason at 48MinutesOfDogsBarking.com

[02:00:44] or Brian with a Y at 48MinutesOfDogsBarking.com.

[02:00:48] Support the show, Patreon.com slash 48MinutesOfDogs.

[02:00:51] There we do a weekly post-show hangout that we like to call Thanks, I Hate It.

[02:00:57] New episodes pop up every Friday.

[02:01:01] Get yourself in on any of the paid levels gets you that.

[02:01:04] But if you get the $10 level, oh, if there's 10 of you, by the end of the year,

[02:01:09] you get to hear the 90-minute commentary track on the Japanese puke porno video,

[02:01:16] Garo Monster Home Delivery.

[02:01:18] We're at 3.

[02:01:19] We've got to get to 10.

[02:01:21] But you know what?

[02:01:23] We're going to do it.

[02:01:24] We're just going to do it.

[02:01:25] We're just going to do it.

[02:01:26] I still think we just got to record it.

[02:01:28] And just hold it.

[02:01:29] And hold it until we get to 10.

[02:01:32] Well, if you want to do that thing, once again,

[02:01:34] Patreon.com slash 48MinutesOfDogs.

[02:01:38] Well, that about does it with the program.

[02:01:40] As we always say at this time, namaste, good luck,

[02:01:43] give mommy a good gut fucking, eat the knife,

[02:01:46] and say goodnight, Jay.

[02:01:48] I love being strong.

[02:01:49] I love being strong.

[02:01:52] Cheers, man.

[02:01:53] Thank you so much.

[02:01:54] Thanks, Jay.

[02:01:55] Bye.

[02:01:55] Bye.

[02:01:57] Bye.

[02:01:57] Bye.

[02:01:57] Bye.